Chernobyl’s Hot Mess, “the Elephant’s Foot”, Is Still Lethal (2013)
nautil.us
nautil.us
Not routine. Operators disabled numerous safety features to perform a turbine spin-down test before shutting down the reactor for scheduled maintenance. The power surge was due to putting the reactor in an unstable state before shutdown. The safety features they bypassed were designed to keep the reactor out of the unstable operating region.
I just don't trust humans to accomplish this for the next thousand years without fail. Even less if a nuclear power plant is run for profit. Even less if storage of nuclear waste does not give off any profit and safe storage needs to be ensured for thousands of years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small,_sealed,_transportable,_...
Basically, the idea is that you remove the human factor where possible (and modern robotics/drone technology can handle where humans ARE needed... to a degree) and build it with the focus on protecting that valuable waste from bad folk.
There are definitely some concerns still, but this combined with much safer reactor technology gets rid of a lot of the concerns.
One of the big problems is that even a lot of existing tech is still very old because people are terrified of nuclear energy and don't want to build new stuff. Which leads to making do with old stuff and finding ways to retrofit. Which is basically NASA's problem just with fear instead of apathy leading to crap budgets.
They require heavy water to keep the reaction going. No heavy water, it just cools down.
If anything 'breaks' - no heavy water, no chain reaction.
I'm grossly oversimplifying, but you get the idea.
I suggest that if we actually put our minds to it, we could develop a kind of 'dumb reactor' that didn't require any kind of intervention at all, other than maintenance.
Plenty more can be found if you have access to read actual articles and not just wikipedia
But the types of grids and storage systems needed for renewables are not quite on the horizon, and right now the alternative is fossil fuels which have a far worse track record than nuclear. Nuclear worst case is a localized area is poisoned for generations. Fossil fuels best case is the whole planet becomes a struggle for human life. Can't we hedge our bets?
"A United Nations study estimates the final total of premature deaths associated with the disaster will be around 4000, mostly from an estimated 3% increase in cancers which are already common causes of death in the region." - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2005/pr38/en/)
"Air pollution from Europe's 300 largest coal power stations causes 22,300 premature deaths a year"
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/12/european...
[Edit] I just took top results from Google, without much research. My point is that even though I fear nuclear disasters too, we should try and compare numbers and trade-offs.
Edit: in case the sporadic downvotes indicate some confusion, let me elaborate.
Certainly there is a common argument which involves comparing artificial radioactivity to natural sources. The infamous "banana equivalent dose" is an example of this. But that's fundamentally a quantitative argument about accepting small doses. It's not a general argument for neglecting the danger of nuclear waste in general.
The argument that you should, say, not worry about the dose you get from the americium in your smoke detectors, or the ocean contamination from Fukushima, can be made based on this. That argument is fundamentally sound. But it does not imply that you should go swim to the bottom of a spent fuel pool and hug the canisters, or that it would be a good idea to have a play in the mud next to Chernobyl.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with making similar arguments for coal. For example, if the amount of mercury contamination in seafood was small compared to the amount of mercury naturally present, it would be quite sensible to argue that coal is not a major problem when it comes to mercury pollution of the ocean. The problem, of course, is that it's simply not true: the natural level of mercury is pretty low, and the contamination from coal power is substantial. When the FDA recommends limiting the intake of seafood for young children and pregnant women, it's not because of the naturally occurring levels, it's because of contamination due to human activity, of which coal is the largest part.
And that's true even when you account for the risk of nuclear power plants and spent fuel. Coal ash is produced in gigantic quantities, and often stored in an open environment, while spent fuel is vitrified and far easier to contain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-...
One extreme is the "ideal dispersal" leak, like the Fukushima leaks into the ocean. In this case, the radioactive material does not "clump up" enough to be dangerous -- it's not that some cubic meters of ocean are fine and some contain deadly, deadly poison, it's that each cubic meter of ocean contains the same minuscule amount of radioactive material, too low to be a threat.
The other extreme is the "immobile clump" of radioactive material, like the Elephant's Foot at the heart of Chernobyl. Here you have enough radioactivity to cause serious harm or death if you get too close for too long. It's scary, but it's also pretty stationary. It's scary like a hole in the ground. You stay away, you warn people not to fall in, but it's not going to creep up on you without warning, like a sinkhole in Florida.
The really scary kind of radioactive waste isn't either of these two extremes, but a dangerous middle-ground: radioactive waste which is clumpy enough to give off deadly amounts of radiation, but mobile enough to get everywhere. You occasionally get this from reactor leaks (that's the primary reason for the exclusion zone around Chernobyl; on the other hand, they could never find any evidence of this sort of leak after Three Mile Isle). You also see it in non-power-plant nuclear accidents, like the Goiânia Accident, which involved a radiation source used in medical imagine.
You also worry about it in coal ash, because the ash can be blown and scattered but is clumpy enough that the radioactive particulate doesn't disperse.
In the mean time, solar/wind is just as cheap to build as coal whereas nuclear (when built safely) costs more.
Nuclear also benefits from government subsidized insurance (the nuclear liability cap).
The old myth was based on the incorrect assumption that base-load demand can only be supplied by base-load power stations; for example, coal in Australia and nuclear in France. However, the mix of renewable energy technologies in our computer model, which has no base-load power stations, easily supplies base-load demand. Our optimal mix comprises wind 50-60%; solar PV 15-20%; concentrated solar thermal with 15 hours of thermal storage 15-20%; and the small remainder supplied by existing hydro and gas turbines burning renewable gases or liquids. (Contrary to some claims, concentrated solar with thermal storage does not behave as base-load in winter; however, that doesn’t matter.)
Hydro can easily be used as base-load, as it is in Brazil and Switzerland.
My point is that concern should be at least vaguely proportional to danger. Freaking out about thousands killed by nuclear accidents while ignoring millions killed by properly operating coal plants is not sensible. And if nuclear displaces coal, then it will save many, many lives.
Comparing with coal is highly relevant, since nuclear substitutes for coal. If coal is significantly more dangerous (as the numbers would indicate) then fear of nuclear power has ultimately killed a lot of people by preventing nuclear from further substituting for coal.
If you'd rather just talk about the dangers of nuclear power without that context, that's entirely fair. But that's a rather different complaint from what you've made so far. And if that's what you don't like, might I gently suggest just clicking the little [-] next to the comments that talk about coal? There's plenty of other discussion to be had here.
I would rather have us running on 100 fukushima era plants than the stupidity of continually burning dinosaurs until we ruin the environment.
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_...
Estimates will range a bit, but we can say with complete confidence that all nuclear accidents thus far haven't come anywhere near that one dam failure.
What? Banqiao Dam killed 171,000 people. There's zero reputable evidence (or even reasonable speculation) for nuclear accidents killing 1.7 million. Even Greenpeace caps out at 200k, and UN/WHO come in in the dozens-to-thousands range.
"Two minutes of exposure and your cells will soon begin to hemorrhage;"
It is sad to see this level of sensationalism in first 3 lines of the article.
Not only cells CAN'T hemorrhage by definition (hemorrhage is blood escaping from the circulatory system, cells don't have blood inside them), but that claim is completely made up, not present in the NRC article linked. Any decent level of fact-checking would have caught that.
Making up fake definitions for precise medical terms for the sake of impact is really bad journalism.
And then it's followed by:
"During a routine test on April 26, 1986, reactor Number 4 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant experienced a power surge that triggered an emergency shutdown."
"If it hits ground water, it could trigger another catastrophic explosion or leach radioactive material into the water nearby residents drink."
Which is contradicted by the article itself:
"Oozing through pipes and eating through concrete, the radioactive lava flow from reactor Number 4 eventually cooled enough to solidfy[sic]."
The aim of this test was to determine whether cooling of the core could continue to be ensured in the event of a loss of power.
[1] https://leatherbarrowa.exposure.co/chernobyl#photo-group-938... (if the #photo-group-93861 doesn't work, see the heading "The Accident To End All Accidents")
Makes one wonder if the systems where more alike than different...
I don't think that's true. The corium had cooled down when they discovered the elephant's foot. It's still extremely radioactive, but not melting hot.
this is the kind of scenario where the ticking off boxes mentality should not be welcome.
things should have been done the long way, i.e giving people a blackout while they were doing those tests.
they also gave the testing duties to the night shift because they ran out of time.
prime example not to test things in production, but also not test things for testing's sake (especially in production)
It's perfectly possible to build systems such that they can be tested 'in production'. Indeed, in many cases I'd argue it's far more useful to informing the result of tests.
I completely reject the notion that 'health and safety' and 'box ticking' is responsible for the disaster at Chernobyl, when it's quite clearly the opposite: a lack of rigorous safety procedures, and those procedures which do existing not being followed.
The Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is ~1,000mi^2 ... this is 80% the size of the state of Rhode Island. "Nearby" residends?
Whole article is just kinda sloppy
4 million pounds? Is that right? Just for comparison, the maximum takeoff weight of a 747 is 735,000 pounds. Less than a quarter of the weight of this lid?
The density of a plane is way lower than that of water, as Tom Hanks recently proved ;)
Also, from Wikipedia:
Explosive steam pressure [...] destroyed the reactor casing, tearing off and blasting the 2000-ton upper plate, to which the entire reactor assembly is fastened, through the roof of the reactor building.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Experiment_...
The other was basically a giant pipe bomb.
I assume they also melt down completely, true?
For Chernobyl, we even have youtubers now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kg4vVYKc90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRHnApxVFQU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa...
It seems the fuel is still contained though.
Most interesting thing I learned is that the primary cause of death of the scientists who at that time were still researching the resulting decay, was from heart failure and strokes.
https://www.cfact.org/2011/03/17/nuclear-safety-reactors-tha...
Personally I'm not terribly worried about meltdowns but rather terrorist getting hold of the waste and making dirty bombs but even that seems fairly unlikely (that is the pros outweigh the cons given todays technology).
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...
Tell me again nuclear power is cheap.
"Hurricane Katrina caused $81 billion in property damages, but it is estimated that the total economic impact in Louisiana and Mississippi may exceed $150 billion"
Tell me again dirty power is cheap.
But you are somewhat right. Katrina is a better comparison with Fukishima which, to my knowledge, was a combination of being a poor location and repeated environmental damage that wasn't properly repaired or maintained. The 2015 Tianjin explosion is a better comparison with Chernobyl as that was human error and poor maintenance, not "act of god" weather.
But I was specifically referring to the idea that Katrina was completely different as there was no human error involved in there.
Figuring out the actual time until Chernobyl is safe is pretty difficult as most resources are highly politicized (I wonder why...) and there are certain REALLY hot spots, but considering the high profile nature of it: even when it reaches safe and reasonable levels of radiation, people are going to be afraid of it.
But here is a pretty decent, if not overly scientific, resource to get an idea of things http://chernobylgallery.com/chernobyl-disaster/radiation-lev...
For good chunks of it, it is safe enough for humans. Not great, but if there were a pressing concern, people could live there (keeping away from the remaining problems) comfortably (seriously, you would be amazed at background radiation levels in a lot of residential areas). But there is no pressing reason to, and there are definitely some spots you would want to stay the hell away from.
Fukishima, Three Mile Island, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki are cases where there IS a pressing reason for people to live there, so standards are much lower/more reasonable/whatever.
The surrounding area will be safe long before that but the epicentre will be radioactive for a long time and there is nothing we can really do about it.
- "Fukushima robot stranded after stalling inside reactor" [1]
- "the robot could remain ambulatory in the radiation field for only 50 minutes, and in fact the robot's lower portion was no longer responding to commands" [2]
Poor robots, always being sent in to die alone.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/13/fukushim...
[2] http://phys.org/news/2005-12-mighty-mouse-robot-frees-stuck....
Today, we don't quite have the ability.
In the future, we will.
Nuclear power is cheap.
The costs are not visible to the user of the fuel but put on the nation states and future generations.
If coal electricity users actually paid the real cost it would dwarf nuclear cost.
> Nuclear power is only cheap as the nation states serve as insurers
EDF, who are preparing to construct Hinkley Point's planned nuclear power station, have been guaranteed a minimum strike price of £92.50/MWh. The mean wholesale price is currently around £46/MWh.Even disregarding the risk/cost of accident cleanup, nuclear power isn't necessarily cheap or unsubsidized.
Besides which, nobody said nuclear power was cheap (not lately), but it is safe. Even with Chernobyl and Fukushima nuclear power causes vastly fewer deaths per unit of delivered power than other methods, especially coal (one of the most common sources of power in the world).
Traditional nuclear power plants are very expensive, but that's because they're huge.