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Comment by dexterdog | Hacker News Reader

I can follow that list no problem except for nespresso. The quality bang for the buck you get with those is so much better than the garbage that passes for coffee in a k-cup.

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No, it's not. If you actually do the math, the Nespresso coffee pods are so expensive per cup as compared to buying ground or whole espresso beans in tins, that a Nespresso machine with pods vs a proper Rancilio Silvia with Illy espresso breaks even in a little more than 12 months. Even though the Rancilio is $650+.

Also, the Nespresso pods are pretty bad on the environment, since they're made from aluminium (energy intensive process) but can't be recycled since they're full of spent coffee.

Most of what I'm paying for is the convenience. I have a machine in my office that I can hit a button on and get a shot out very quickly. I have a similar Jura machine at home that starts with beans and pulls a shot. The Nespresso shots are almost always better.

Yeah, you don't want an "automatic" machine that does grinding, tamping and pulling the shot. It just doesn't work well, they don't make good espresso IMO. Even the ones I've used at various work locations, that cost thousands of dollars, are pretty bad.

What you need is a manual (aka semi-automatic) machine, and a proper grinder (I have the Ascaso I2 and like it a lot) or even just pre-ground Illy, it's not that bad. Learning how to grind, tamp etc. takes about a month. From then it's pure espresso magic.

For extra hipster points, buy a really manual machine, aka lever machine:

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/brands/la-pavoni

I have wanted to get one of those for the house, but as I said, in the office it's hard to beat a nespresso when the automatic alternative is keurig.

the hipster points are irrelevant for the la pavoni, they are just straight up beautiful machines.

Or you could buy this, plus a weekend in Hawaii:

http://yourcoffee.arcada.vilkas.fi/WebRoot/Arcada/Shops/your...

OK, I love turkish coffee so i may be picking up one of those at some point.

As someone that works in the coffee industry I've been excited to see some of the startups coming out now that could compete against companies like Nespresso using real coffee while still preserving convenience, automation and ease of use. You should check out Spinn. I haven't tried it but it looks promising and might potentially perform better than other so called automated espresso machines.

Interesting machine. I may give one a try. Unfortunately the pre-order function on the site is broken if you are blocking google analytics, but that is workable.

Then you are using the wrong coffe, your machine is badly configured (most are), was never really cleaned internally (most arent) or are just way to used to the artificial taste.

I don't think anyone thinks its economical long-term over beans/maker, just that it is cheaper than going to a store to get coffee. The convenience of having a serviceable cup of espresso in less than 30 seconds (no warm up time!) all for under a dollar makes it worth it.

As for the environment, they do have a recycling program for Nespresso pods with drop-off stations in a bunch of places. It is Nestle though so they might just be taking the recycled pods and putting them in the trash.

You COULD of course just get real coffee. You could buy the highest quality of coffee beans from a local roaster who imports the stuff himself from a farmer in Ethiopia and it would still be cheaper than Nespresso. It would be way tastier but you'd need to grind the coffee and use something like an AeroPress to make it.

Most of local roasters can grind coffee as well ;)

I second AeroPress but also Hario V60 or other pour over methods are excellent.

You still would want to grind it at home. After grinding it starts loosing taste, not relevant how you package it except you make single use packages.

AeroPress does not produce Espresso coffee, which the Nespresso machine does.

You COULD grind your beans, brew the coffee yourself, clean up the mess you made and then clean the machine up. Or just pop a pod in and drink your coffee.

I couldn't live without my Nespresso machine because it's an amazing compromise between ease of use, reliability and quality. It's 'good enough' compared to 'proper' coffee while being a million times easier and consistent.

The coffee snobs (I say that with a lot of love) are out in full effect in your replies, but I'm with you. I did the whole Chemex, Aeropress, weight scale, burr grinder, Japanese tea kettle, etc etc and my Nespresso machine is by far and away the easiest way to get delicious coffee. My wife also adores their Aeroccino for perfect lattes every time.

As far as recycling, Nespresso provides free, self-addressed bags that you drop in the mail with your spent pods and they handle it for you.

I now they do that, but I figure the environmental footprint of that is probably much worse that peeling off the foil, dumping the coffee and recycling the aluminum is pretty high.

Correct me if I am wrong, but none of those other devices sound like an espresso machine, so to comparing the product produced by them with the product of a pod device produces is apples to oranges.

Perhaps I am a bit particular, but I've never produced a coffee that I was happy with using non-espresso devices. Perhaps you are the same? Maybe you could give a proper espresso machine a go?

That said, I have to say that I am surprised about the quality of the espresso shot produced by these pod devices, but I still think that you get a better result by grinding yourself with a half decent espresso machine, all without being so wasteful and being able to support local roasters. Once you take those positives, and your new found smugness/feeling of superiority the choice is easy! :-)

You're correct it's not a straight comparison, I was looking at it more from the generic "black liquid with caffeine" point of view.

I've been lucky enough to use La Marzocco espresso machines at work for many years and they absolutely make better espresso than my Nespresso machine. The problem is that machine was $15k and my Nespresso was $100. I understand there are more consumer-grade espresso machines, but those still cost $1000+ and don't necessarily make espresso better than the Nespresso.

Buy a grinder and an aeropress. It's a quick way to make coffee and it's way better than nespresso.

Agreed. Had the same aeropress for 4 years. Very easy to clean. The filters are very cheap, you'd normally expect to be gouged on these by some bean counter scumbag.

I've done grind and aero. It's not espresso. It makes a good cup of regular coffee if that's what you're after, but if I'm going manual like that I prefer my french press.

Buy a small grinder and 2-5 cup drip coffee maker. You'll get better tasting coffee, and it's much much cheaper.

It literally takes 20 seconds to grind coffee beans, and it is the easiest/cheapest way to go from meh coffee to good coffee.

That's not espresso

the horror. the horror.

It's not a snob issue. It's just that if you prefer an espresso-based drink, that is what you prefer. If I preferred a drip-based drink I would have many cheaper options.

Then don't pretend you stand on any moral high ground if you cannot be bothered to endure the difference between espresso and drip to support a larger cause. Your original claim that you in some way support a boycott on Nestle is bullshit. You just coincidentally don't like their other products.

No, I just coincidentally have an option on their other products. Nobody else makes a decent instant espresso option. Even the alternative pods that you can get for the nespresso machine are garbage as I have tried many of them.

You have and option: drip. You choose to believe that option is not a sufficient substitute. And by all accounts, the difference between the two offers such a small change in personal utility that your participation in this boycott amounts to nothing. Your original claim to support the boycott is a straight up lie, and not even close to being true.

And that's fine. You can support Nestle. No one is making you act one way or the other. Just don't lie to yourself about where you stand on moral issues like this one.

Jesus, get off your high horse and then realize that if you think drip and espresso are interchangeable you just have no clue what you're talking about.

Here here. I really don't get the fascination with aeropress on HN. Perhaps I am not yet at the ultimate level of coffee snobbery, but whenever I have had aeropress coffee i am always disappointed with it. Espresso all the way.

I secretly suspect that it is because the aeropress users have never owned/used an decent espresso machine, but I could be easily missing the nuances of alternative coffee extraction techniques.

I love espresso, but simply will not spend the money to make it properly at home. When at home, grinding my own beans and a small drip coffee maker works well and is cheap.

So I'm with you. If I'm going to spend any real effort or money I'll finally break down and buy an actual espresso machine.

I prefer good coffee to bad espresso.

It is pretty hard to be moral when soooo much is at stake.

:D Yeah companies like these strive on the fact that they have the power to purchase many, many companies and conquer markets from many directions.

Sadly for example the popular Finnish Penguin icecream was bought by Nestle, but they didn't of course change the name, so many people maybe still believe that it's still being owned by Finnish companies. The product didn't change, so that's good, but now the money is going to a multinational company instead of a local one.

So yeah, it's kinda difficult to avoid all of these.

I am 100% sure you never did the math. I worked for a small roaster in switzerland importing only organic coffee. Price per cup was about the half.

What math? The math of nespresso vs k-cup? I know it's more expensive, but you can't do espresso with keurig. If you're talking about the math of DIY you are not taking into consideration the math of labor and time.

Most full automatic machines are faster than a espresso machine. You you just fill it like twice a week and not every single time. IMO the time point does not count.

Disclaimer: I dont know what a keurig is. I only drink espresso and i like them as good as possible

I have a full automatic at home. Another one for the office would cost me about $1000. I got the one I have used. It takes up a lot of space. The nespresso was about $70 and is tiny. I recycle the pods.

Sorry for beeing picky on this. Ive worked a while with coffee machines while getting my IT edu.

A 70$ nespresso machine is a mess. Realistically you would replace that yearly because it gets to a health hazard soon. (Mold and crisp plastic) a good one with basic standards will cost you more like $250.

A ok fullautomate can be bought from like $500.

About the recylcling ether you make art out of them or that really does not mean that much. Painted plastic coated aluminium does not really recycle very well.

When people brought in nespresso machines (of all price ranges except the >$500 ones from proper brands) we would show them the internals and scratch a little mold from here and there. It was seriously the most easy way to sell them a proper machine.

They're not hard to clean at all and it is recommended that you do so just like it is on all of the full autos I've used. I don't have to worry about the people that think that you never have to run a maintenance cycle on the machine to clean it. Also, the mold problem is because most people leave the machine loaded after use. If you merely open the loader and leave it open it releases the just-used pod and dries out on its own.

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