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Comment by jjawssd | Hacker News Reader

Primary. Can confirm. Not even in the same ballpark.

If you've ever been in love and been with with that person and it feels like a moment could stretch on to eternity and everything is perfect... thats what opiates feel like.

With MDMA everything seems unique, there is a pronounced clarity of mind including insight, and vision. Tactile senses are heightened - it is a full, wholistic high. Perspective often shifts from minutae to space/time. Heightened senses (tactility) and feelings of empathy, understanding, oneness are universal. You may want to dance, sit down, look at the carpet, hug a friend.

The difference may seem subtle to a drug-naïve individual but they are two totally different head spaces

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I want to try a light psychedelic but not sure where to start. Never taken any sort of drugs before, including alcohol. Any suggestions?

Edited

Completely unrelated. Not comparable. I suggest you visit http://bluelight.org/ to learn more, including a lot about safety.

Thanks, I'll start there.

I'd also recommend https://www.erowid.org/ .

I second erowid. Fantastic resource.

LSD and MDMA are different things.

Perhaps start by reading wikipedia pages.

Wikipedia is a good source but for those interested recreational drugs I strongly encourage those interested to visit bluelight.org over Wikipedia because Wikipedia provides less practical information for end-users.

If you don't know if there's a difference between MDMA and LSD, your first source shouldn't be something like bluelight. You should have a lot of information before you even consider being an end-user.

A good first time psychedelic is 2-CB [0] (low dose 10-15mg). It will give you fairly intense visuals, somewhat similar to those on LSD, with virtually no anxious or weird thoughts. As always set and setting are still important, and you should be prepared for the chance of a bad trip, but I would say you're significantly less likely to have a scary experience on 2-CB than LSD.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C-B

Note that you need a very accurate scale (measures down to the milligram) to accurately measure dosage for this substance. Please make sure you don't take too much. It is impossible to measure by eye.

it's also ridiculously rare and hard to find (requires well connected sources or pretty complicated darknet/btc/dropsite setup).

in addition to that, you're talking about a white powder drug where the effective dose is in the milligrams range. confirming purity and appropriateness of dose is stuff that requires a lot of experience. this is not beginner stuff.

LSD is not a "light" psychedelic by any sense of the word. It's pretty great in many ways, but one of the big downsides is the duration of the drug. Mushrooms would be a better first bet, solely because the duration is significantly shorter. "light" is a hard term to use for any psychedelic as most can put you into total, terrifying ego loss. That being said, safe and sane mushrooms are your best bet IMHO. Just read trip reports to get an idea of the proper set and setting to get the most from the experience.

I'd have to disagree, despite being a proponent of occasional mushroom use. Any significant dose of psilocybin has the potential to turn into a VERY overwhelming experience. Especially for a first time user.

As others have mentioned I'd recommend starting with cannabis, which in my opinion very much qualifies as a psychedelic.

For sure, as I mentioned, it's hard to call any common psychedelic light or casual for that reason. But, 3 hours of too much is much much better than 6 hours of too much :)

Speaking of duration: it can be really long, way longer than regular 10 hours. Once a trip on piracetam+L was 40 sleepless hours. Shrooms for starters.

Avoid LSD.

Good advice if you aren't in a positive mindset

SOme oif the best times in my life have been on LSD.

cannabis.

it's incredibly non-toxic, cheap, easy to get, actually legal in some places, easy to confirm that what you bought is what you think it is, and will produce a pleasant and mild high that has some attributes in common with psychedelics (though it isn't a true psychedelic in the classical sense).

Hmm I guess that's something to consider. Thanks.

imo Cannabis is far and away more physically harmful than LSD and MDMA despite being orders of magnitude more commonly available

LSD is also incredibly non-toxic. it's such a strong drug though that even though it's very safe for your body I really can't recommend that a person uses that for their first ever experience with drug-altered consciousness.

MDMA is just objectively more toxic than cannabis. this isn't really subject to your opinion.

if what you're referring to is the fact that cannabis is frequently smoked, that's not a fair comparison. oral cannnabis products exist too.

Smoked cannabis is harmful to the lungs and oral cannabis is easily overdosed.

No matter how you spin this one, you have to be careful with whatever road you choose to go down.

remember, you started this as a comparison of the relative dangers of cannabis vs. lsd or mdma. stay focused. you tried to make a point and I disagreed with it. accusing me of spinning is disengenuous.

are you really going to start talking about "easily overdosed" when the drugs you're comparing it to are lsd (active in the microgram range) and mdma (active in the milligram range)?

seriously, you feel like you can get away with claiming that cannabis is more dangerous than a drug that most people encounter as mystery pills at a party? get real.

You are of course completely correct. But given one hit of acid vs one hit of a cannabis brownie, people are more weary of the hit of acid and tend to subdivide it into pieces whereas novices typically trust cannabis brownies to be weak or they eat multiple of them and receive an overwhelming dose more often than not. Or maybe not. Your thoughts?

my thoughts are that cannabis is remarkably safe in general, but that everyone using it should be well informed and not be taking edibles that they don't know the content of.

in legal states you can buy properly labeled edibles at a shop. if it's homemade stuff, you really have to be a lot more careful. either make it yourself or really trust your supplier. personally I would never take edibles bought from a dealer unlabeled. that's a real risk of an uncomfortable experience.

I think smoking (or vaping if you're sensitive to the smoke) is by far the safest and most effective way to take cannabis though.

LSD and MDMA there are really no safety tips that can possibly help. you either trust your source or you don't. if you trust your source and follow the dosage guidelines it's fine. both of those drugs are very safe at appropriate doses.

WTF!?!

You CANNOT overdose on cannabis. As in it will not kill you.

The only way you could say that is if you have some weird definition where by having a "bad trip" counts as an overdose.

I think he literally meant unknowingly taking so much that it overwhelms you.

This

As someone who has dabbled with all three I'd recommend starting with cannabis then MDMA and finally, in a safe environment, LSD. With one-off doses toxicity isn't your major concern, it's potential self harm through being unacquainted with different states of mind and control. Start on the more familiar end and work your way up if you're confident in your state of mind and sense of control.

For the record I've never had a bad experience with any of them. I'd say cannabis and MDMA are my favorite substances, though I mix them with tobacco and alcohol so I suspect there's a synergistic effect where my reward center is being lit up like a Christmas tree. FWIW I don't go out to raves or clubs - I'm old and an introvert - I just hang out with friends in our own homes or outdoors near our homes so the risks are lower.

I would add not to use LSD alone - have a sober 'trip sitter' with you. If things take a negative turn, they might be able to turn it back around, or at least calm you down and stop you doing anything silly.

I would recommend starting with LSD; it's much easier to take compared to something like mushrooms, and it's easy to reduce dosage.

I often took a 1/4 hit when I was in college; aka cut a normal hit into 4 pieces. I found this to be a really nice, 'mellow' (well for LSD anyway...) trip; You won't hallucinate much (probably none at all), and so you'll still be able to function and get around, go on a hike, that sort of thing. You'll still have an incredible experience full of self discover and personal insight, but of course each persons milage may vary.

At some point once you have a feel for it you'll want to take a full hit and experience the full effect. But that takes more planning and you should definitely find a designated 'watcher' because you can make some really irrational decisions on this stuff, esp. if you are inexperienced. Always good to have a straight friend around to stop you from making phone calls to family (bad idea), going out for a hike in a blizzard (also attempted this one), you get the idea.

Mushrooms in my experience are much more unpredictable and given the option I personally always chose LSD.

A big problem with LSD it that it can last an insanely long amount of time. The first time I took it I was tripping 16 hours later.

True, my first full trip was similar. That's also why I recommend taking a small dosage the first time (hell most times); my 1/4 hit trips last around 6-8 hours. I also found I could sleep without trouble on that dosage as well, another major issue if you take a full hit (you tend to not be able to sleep at all that night).

I find I can't sleep while I'm affected by the drug, but when I am able to sleep again, I know the drug's worn off. I also try to plan accordingly and drop earlier in the day

Do you know what the dose was? If it was a tab, what did it taste like? Did you swallow or leave it under the tongue?

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Research Chemicals that are sold as LSD. They can have wildly different effects and durations, and are much less 'known' compared to LSD.

My first trip was 10 or 11 hours and that was on ~200ug.

If I had absolutely no experience with drugs, but had my current knowledge, I would start not with psychedelics, but with low doses of an empatogen (MDAI, preferably, which is hard to obtain but still legal in some countries, if not, then MDMA). This experiecne is much more manageable than psychedelics and if I would meet any resistance (which can happen), it would be easier to climb down. Only after that would I try psychedelics (mushrooms, for a shorter experience or LSD, for a longer one). With an experienced sitter I can trust.

The best place to start is a substituted phenethylamine rather than a tryptamine, as these compounds tend to be gentler, more euphoric and less reality-shattering. Some research chemicals that are good options:

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/2C-C https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/2C-E

In terms of consciousness expanding, DMT (in the form of Ayahuasca) is probably the most potent psychedelic. It can be emotionally intense though, so not the place to start.

Phenethylamines tend to have more side effects and feel less natural.

The ones you listed, such as 2C-C and 2C-E are quite different different. 2C-C may be gentle but 2C-E can be extremely intense / reality shattering. I will never look at reality the same after a 20mg dose of 2C-E. Also, many of the phenethylamines are now illegal. Including the NBOME series which are extremely toxic.

I'd say stick with the tryptamines like 4-HO/AcO-DMT/DIPT/MIPT, DPT, ALD-52 as they tend to be more enlightening rather than entertaining, IMO.

Educate yourself thoroughly on your options, on the risks, and benefits of anything and everything you might be considering.

There's a lot of really great material written on these substances. erowid.org is a good starting point, but don't stop there! Get some good books on the subject.

Be wary of what some random person tells you. Most people are really misinformed, and there are a lot of myths and urban legends floating around that are bandied about like facts.

Do your own research! Be very thorough. Know what you're getting yourself in to. Be very respectful of the substances, and take them very seriously.

First of all, if you have a family history of mental disorders, like schizophrenia or bipolar, I would highly recommend not trying any psychedelic. There exists a possibility of uncovering a latent genetic mental disorder that otherwise would not have appeared.

That said, I wholeheartedly recommend starting with Marijuana. It's not a psychedelic in the traditional sense, but it's a good introduction to mind-altering drugs.

From there, either LSD or Mushrooms. These are more typical psychedelic experiences, with long durations. LSD can last 8-12 hours depending on the dose, mushrooms is 6-10, depending on dose and species. I personally prefer LSD, but you should be cautious and ensure you get legitimate stuff. Taking precautions and purchasing off the internet from a reputable vendor is the safest method in my opinion.

When it comes to LSD, I always recommend swallowing over just leaving it on your tongue, especially if purchased from an irreputable source. The common Research Chemicals sold as LSD are only activated sublingually (through the mouth/gums), whereas LSD is sublingual and oral. For a newbie 100ug I believe is considered a light dose, although you could go down to 50ug and still feel Something.

General trip advise would be to ensure you're in a positive mindset, and in a secure, safe, comfortable setting. Taking a walk through nature is nice, as well. Set and setting is important.

I would advise against trying any research chemicals (25X or 2C-X, where X=[A-Z]), just because they are newer and less known, but with the right research and precautions you could be okay.

Avoid mixing until you know what you're doing. A lot of people like to mix marijuana and lsd/shrooms, and I find it definitely intensifies the experience, while clouding it a little.

Overall, you should conduct a lot of research and read people's trip reports so you know what you're getting into. Tripsit.me is a wonderful resource, and includes an IRC channel for support and conversation while tripping. Erowid is a popular site for information as well.

Interesting point about schizophrenia and bipolar. I'm still in the "curious" phase, so I'll definitely be doing more research. Anyhow, thanks for the other tips man; I've saved this to my HN favorites.

Besides family history of mental illness, i remember reading that a "bad childhood" , or a period of very high stress are also risk factors to getting mental illness with marijuana.

A friend of mine actually discovered his latent schizophrenia through Marijuana usage. So yeah, not as safe as people want to believe. I honestly think that there is less mental health risk in taking MDMA, Speed or Alcohol compared to THC.

You missed out on the golden age of MXE. God what a drug. Not a psychedelic but with light negatives and high positives.

Take one of the shorter-lived 2C-x drugs and watch Flash Gordon and Heavy Metal.

My preferred combination is AMT and 25C-NBOME (VERY DANGEROUS TO DOSE WRONGLY) with some ethylphenidate. The sight of a rising sun turns from being saccharine to something "beyond man and time". The 25C-NBOME is less for unique effects and more for the fact that you could literally have months worth of trips (1x a week) in a tiny bag.

If you want an escape plan, have a benzo like clonezepam (sp?). It'll tranquilize you out of a nightmare if some fucked up shit appears.

And remember, the interesting thing about psychedelics isn't the "oneness with everything" bull that idiots talk about. That's just a temporary addictive feeling. One of the interesting parts is the enhanced capability for visual modeling and making connections. The other interesting part is that it makes you feel like a golden man Prometheus thing. You conjure up mythologies and struggles from just observing the local area outside.

Also take 200-400 mg of magnesium.

I also recommend having a benzo before taking any psychedelic for the first time. It will bring you out of it for the most part if you start having a bad time.

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