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Comment by Slackwise | Hacker News Reader

Can we please just bring back removable batteries?

That will not prevent batteries spontaneously combusting.

Replaceable batteries will only address the pain of safety recalls and increase the risk of fires due to consumers choosing to buy cheaper off-brand batteries.

You are correct on both accounts, but I still think it's an overall safety benefit in the case of a recall. Portable dongle batteries have the same potential problems, so it's shifting the danger from one location to another.

My statement, though, is not entirely to address just safety, but also planned obsolescence, and consumer convenience. I've always carried a spare battery since even my HTC WinMo "smartphone" days. Same with my PowerBook.

Actually removable batteries should be less likely to spontaneously combust. Most battery failures seem to be caused by short circuits due to compression or flexing. Removable batteries are mechanically stronger because they have integral cases instead of just relying on the device casing for protection.

Personally I would never buy a cell phone with a built in battery. I always have spare batteries for my phones and frequently swap them out. It sure beats being tied to a charger, or plugging an external battery to an awkward and fragile USB connector.

You state absolutely valid facts, but removable batteries carry one huge additional risk: You can now go purchase a no-name cheap explosion-prone chinese one, which your phone manufacturer (barring recent incidents) most likely would have protected you from, with their QA.

Granted, you can do that anyway today if you go to an unauthorized shop for a replacement, or even get it yourself via Amazon/Ebay & co., but the general availability of shitty batteries for retail purchase would increase the size of the problem by an order of magnitude.

You can still purchase and connect "shitty batteries" (aka power banks) to your phone's USB plug with, potentially, same consequences. The only difference is that responsibility using external batteries shifts from a phone manufacturer to the user. I'm yet to see valid pro irremovable battery arguments from the perspective of a user, not manufacturer.

Actually I had completely forgotten about battery packs.

Point taken, absolutely. Hopefully the crappy ones are simply overstating their capacity instead of actually trying to reach it within volume/safety constraints (and cutting corners to do so), so they won't be as explosion prone - but indeed, valid point.

I would prefer water-resistance to removable batteries...

(I don't think it's that simple, but given the choice, I would take the tight seal)

The Samsung Galaxy XCover I used to own managed both water resistance and a removable battery.

How would this resolve any issues?

Well it would have likely solved the Note 7 recall, and any futures battery recalls. It would also allow a user to remove an unsafe battery so that it's not in use while waiting for a replacement.

Didn't the phones with replacement batteries also catch fire?

Less than .01% of the phones caught fire. The recall is crazy.

If the Note 7 hadn't been recalled then eventually many more would have probably caught fire. We'll never know what the cumulative failure rate would have been if the devices had been left in the field for years. Eventually people would have been killed.

The fraction of phones that caught on fire was similar to the fraction of hoverboards that caught on fire. Normal products with similar batteries have a much lower failure rate.

Do you have a source for that number?

When you decide whether a risk is unacceptable, there are two parts to consider: the likelihood of the event, and the potential worst-case scenario should the event come to pass. .01% is a very low likelihood, but the worst case scenario that one of these phones maims the user is an extremely bad outcome. In this framework the recall is the most sensible thing to do.

.10% within a few weeks of release.

Without a recall, that number keeps on climbing and nobody has any idea where it stops. 1% of phones exploded? 10%?

You obviously can't unexplode the ones that exploded already, but a recall is about the ones that haven't exploded yet.

I thought the problem with the note 7 was with the power controller, and not the batteries -- didn't phones continue catching fire after the first recall?

There is still no root cause for the Note 7 issue, apparently.

It would have saved Samsung billions of dollars if they could have just replaced the batteries and not had to buy back 2.5M phones.

No, it would ultimately have caused more fires with no way to blame them on anyone in particular. If we're going to treat batteries as safety-critical components, then it's counterproductive to encourage end users to replace them with the cheapest ones they can find.

Mobile phones with replaceable batteries aren't coming back, and good riddance.

So your solution is to say "no, only large companies are allowed to pick batteries". Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is. Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery.

Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is.

Yes, as a matter of fact, that's exactly what the Note 7 debacle demonstrated. There was a quality problem that could cause fires. There was a single party who could be expected to take responsibility. Finally, there was a coordinated worldwide recall.

Problem solved, system working as intended. Sucks to be Samsung, of course, but the end result will be safer batteries for everyone.

Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery.

Sorry, that's not going to happen. Get used to disappointment.

Or, the manufacturer of the batteries could recall them.

Also, plenty of phones have replaceable batteries, including new models, so I'll just keep buying them. Means I won't be buying Samsung, but that's just an extra bonus.

Yeah, it's sad. I'm fond of my Galaxy Note 4, and plan to keep it running as long as possible -- yes, the battery is replaceable, so I should be able to get a few years out of it -- but once it dies I won't want to buy another Samsung, and nobody else is making a phablet with a stylus.

Maybe some other manufacturer will see the opportunity Samsung has given them to break into this niche.

Wouldn't a better solution be to just make sure dangerous batteries don't get sold? Just regulate them for safety like tons of other dangerous goods already are

After the first recall, when a few of the replacement phones caught fire again, Samsung couldn't even reproduce the issue in a lab. Regulation isn't going to prevent bad things from ever happening. You need a fallback plan.

Don't be ridiculous. They would still have to recall every device, how else could they do it?

You can't send plain faulty batteries back.

And they still don't know why it happened, They tried 2 different batteries from different manufacturers and it was still exploding.

Er... isn't it obvious? They could mail you the replacement battery?

How did you figure out that the battery is the problem? Samsung has yet to figure out a root cause, so it may be mechanical design, or ...

No, I mean, instead of recalling 2.5m phones, you replace 2.5m batteries. Which you can do. Because they're replaceable.

Samsung tried shipping different batteries in the replacements but those still acted up. It's pretty unlikely replaceable battery which have done much.

Sure, but that doesn't change how much easier, cheaper, and less invasive to customers the replacement can be when you can take the batteries out.

No, because of reliability. Either you have a connector or a spring neither is good for reliability

When was the last time you've heard of a phone that failed due to a broken battery connector?

Phones are already designed as throwaway trash to be discarded in 18 months (and if you somehow keep it for longer, the software industry will happily make it almost unusable within the next 2 years). Reduced reliability of a battery connector isn't a meaningful topic, and it never was - not even in the old dumbphone days.

My Galaxy Nexus would often shut down due to a loose battery connector. It was a widespread problem and the workaround was to fold paper or tinfoil at the bottom of the battery to push it against the connector.

I've personally had two phones fail because of the battery connector. Anec-data for sure, but those spring clips are not robust at all.

One of the reasons I am getting an LG V20.

Can we just go back to the 80's when you could chain smoke your way through duty free cigarettes whilst reading a highly flammable and freely provided newspaper, pissed, oh, and flying at 70000 feet, twice the speed of sound on Concorde? Check in was so much quicker then and nobody had exploding batteries.

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