Hacker News Reader

Comment by udkl | Hacker News Reader

I don't read entire non-fiction books anymore but just search for it's summaries or notes.

Most non-fiction books revolve around a few central ideas. Once you internalize this you realize it isn't necessary to read the entire book. You just need to read the summary and notes that someone else has written.

For eg : I'm currently going through the book notes that Derek Sivers has written and just posted this last night : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042438

Another source of (business book) summaries is Actionable Books Weekly : http://www.actionablebooks.com/en-ca/

Sometimes a good review on Amazon sufficiently maps the ideas in the book and is all that is required.

Further, you don't always have to buy the books. Your free local public libraries carry a lot of these books and even have the digital version that you can borrow.

View on HN

A big advantage of taking the time to read a book, even if the book has just one central idea, is that it forces you to spend 5+ hours thinking on that idea. No summary can do that for you. I'd even go so far as to say that it's not even important which book or idea you spend that time on; just spending time with your own thoughts and imagination will teach you things no non-fiction or summary can.

I do agree that summaries and comments are useful, but they serve the same purpose as non-fiction rather than fiction.

I generally agree, although some books don't need the week-long time to digest what they are saying and process the implications.

For most "pop" books, they are often either based on a long-form article (commonly New Yorker or The Economist) or have a long-form article that summarizes them. I have switched to just reading that instead and saving my reading time for more "meaty" books.

As some examples, off the top of my head: The Checklist Manifesto, Simple Rules, The Long Tail, anything by Gladwell. I didn't need to read the whole book of any of those; the long-form article covered it.

It also depends on how you approach the notes.

I for example make notes of the notes and then re-visit them frequently over the next few days. This helps me visualize and concretize the ideas in different ways since I'm revising them at different times. In the interim I'm trying to incorporate them in everyday life.

Tbh this sounds like more work than just reading the book

"A big advantage of taking the time to read a book, even if the book has just one central idea, is that it forces you to spend 5+ hours thinking on that idea. "

Exposing you to ^new^ ideas, ones not encountered before.

> Most non-fiction books revolve around a few central ideas.

That only applies to business, popular history, popular psychology, self-help, etc. books written for the mass market. Not surprisingly most of them are garbage and frequently wrong. Malcolm Gladwell's books are probably the most well known in this geanra and IMO are garbage.

As soon as you start reading serious non-fiction (mathematics, psychology, philosophy) summaries just do not work. The "book about the book" in fact tends to be much longer in length (good examples: anything on Wittgenstein, anything on Galois theory)

> As soon as you start reading serious non-fiction (mathematics, psychology, philosophy) summaries just do not work. The "book about the book" in fact tends to be much longer in length (good examples: anything on Wittgenstein, anything on Galois theory)

Strong concur. Any serious work is a nuanced beast that demands grappling with and considering.

Derek Sivers has phenomenal book summaries. https://sivers.org/book

- changed my life - read summary first, if really good, buy and read book - cons are 1) makes you think less about content 2) may be too easily forgotten 3) retention isn't as high as reading a book that hits theme over and over with a sledgehammer 4) ignore books with bad review that may be useful to you

Second this. I spent a lot of time reading reviews on his site. I also noticed the reviews of the books I've read he really nailed the salient points. Highly recommend checking it out.

I've tried taking notes of my reading in the past, but struggled because they either (1) were incomprehensible sometime later or (2) interrupted my flow of reading

I wonder if anyone has techniques / software (voice to text) they would share..

Highlighting passages on kindles as you read is the most passive way I've come across. Review afterword

I try to do it by reading a chapter, then going back to the beginning of it and taking notes on the big ideas.

Hmm... while this might well be true for most books (especially pop-non-fiction), I find that the best books are good precisely because they are not like this. Notably, most nonfiction from academics is not at all like this.

To give examples, "The e-myth revisited" is clearly in the category of only really having one point. On the other hand, "Reasons and persons" by Derek Parfit has a multitude of small nuanced points and arguments scattered through the entire text.

I would definitely encourage you to seek out these denser, more serious books. They are harder going, but if you can find good ones then they have a lot to offer.

I think you miss the point of these books somewhat. Of course they need to get across their central idea, but more importantly they need to place the idea within a variety of examples; to address limitations and to set various ways in which the idea can be proven to be true.

I guess I did not elaborate it enough. Once you have read a certain number of these books you sort of learn to create your own examples and test the ideas against them. (Critical thinking)

This is not to say that the summaries or notes are bereft of examples. Derek Sievers notes for example are extremely detailed and he retains the narrative wherever necessary.

I read entire non-fiction books precisely because they revolve around a few central ideas. My retention and ability to apply the concepts is significantly better if I expose myself to the same ideas day after day. A well-written book that takes weeks to go through can leave it's mark far more effectively than a quick summary I'd forget after a few months.

That said, I prefer to read a summary of the book before the book itself so I can focus on the details instead of exhausting mental energy figuring out what is going on.

+1 to the wonderful resource of the public libraries.

I find that I retain more if I actually read the book then write my own summary in a journal somewhere. I learned that habit from a friend and once in a while I'd go back over the notes.

There is another advantage to "real" reading that other replies haven't mentioned: a good book is well crafted language, and by absorbing the author's eloquence – by savouring his/her metaphors and lexicon and wit and style – you, over time, grow more articulate as well. It's soylent vs three-star fine dining; both have their rightful place, and neither can fully replace the other.

>Sometimes a good review on Amazon sufficiently maps the ideas in the book and is all that is required.

How can you tell that without reading the book? The benefit of actually reading the thing is getting to synthesize the text and form your own ideas about what it all means.

Your method isn't unacceptable, but to use it as your main source of getting information from books is a bit...odd.

Strange that this got downvoted since it makes an arguable point and has links to relevant resources. Reading full books gives me a sense of accomplishment and pride as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to beat the need to do it over anyone's head as long as they're getting the information they need. I agree with the sentiment of this comment. The central ideas expressed in many non-fiction books (business especially) are often found within the first 30 pages only to be repeated ad nauseam through the remaining pages.

Sometimes I'll read books which argue some point I already agree with, where the first half of the book tries to convince the reader the point is valid, and the second half spends time debunking counter-arguments. In such cases, jumping to the end can be the best use of time.

It all depends really. In fact, there's a whole science-of-sorts behind reading non-fiction: http://pne.people.si.umich.edu/PDF/howtoread.pdf

Trust me, you need this "How to read a book", on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2gxEsbQ

If you're reading for previously unknown info, that's great.

I think though that some books have a large potential benefit (I'm thinking of Mindset right now) because they spend a few 10's of thousands of words changing your mind. Summaries won't have the same effect.

Since you mention mindset, here are Derek's notes on the book : https://sivers.org/book/Mindset

The central idea of the book is revealed in it's description on Amazon : Dweck shows how success in school, work, sports, the arts, and almost every area of human endeavor can be dramatically influenced by how we approach our goals. People with a fixed mindset—those who believe that abilities are fixed—are far less likely to flourish than those with a growth mindset—those who believe that abilities can be developed through hard work, good strategies, and mentorship. Mindset reveals how great parents, teachers, managers, and athletes can put this idea to use to foster outstanding accomplishment.

And then Derek's detailed notes will help me understand the sub-ideas presented by the author as well as any relevant and interesting examples.

That's good (I just read the notes) for understanding the ideas and seeing some good examples that demonstrate those ideas.

The thing is, I'd hate for anyone to miss the experience I had with that book - I really & honestly put myself in the growth-mindset camp, but the book taught me how to see the many, many areas of my life that I had a fixed mindset about.

It's one of the few books that has literally changed my life, so like I said, I'd hate to see people missing out on that (assuming they're in need of it!) by reading a summary.

Those random sentences without a context seem like a waste of time IMO. They'd definitely help if you read the book though.

E.g. I like this self-summary (i.e. but its own author): http://scottberkun.com/2013/ten-myths-of-innnovation/

i assume all the time you save reading summaries and notes allows for more introspection on the more serious, though-provoking, and fleshed out non-fiction books you read, regardless of their length (article, essay, essay collection, what have you).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com