Shake Shack Bets Against Peak Burger | Hacker News Reader

Shake Shack Bets Against Peak Burger

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I love the idea of more "fast casual" burger places but I wish that people would have a normal burger on the menu if they're also going to experiment. Regular bun (ciabatta or sourdough is really hard to bite through and sends the ingredients fleeing out the sides), regular cheese (even Anthony Bourdain agrees[0], use something that melts like American or some other "fake" cheese), regular toppings (you can experiment with the other stuff but have lettuce, tomato, pickle, uncooked sliced or diced onion, and mustard/mayonnaise/ketchup available), and for all that is good and wonderful REGULAR MEAT (80/20 ground chuck with nothing "ground in," please).

I'm not saying that's the perfect burger, I'm saying it's becoming increasingly difficult in Seattle to find that as a "normal" burger. Something without the addition of kale, beets, sprouts, buffalo/bison/turkey/emu mix, or on some unholy bread that was never meant to sustain the stuff on a regular burger. Two places do an amazing job of "your basic burger and fries for a good price with nothing crazy" that I've found so far: A Burger Place and Burger/Kabob Hut, both in the U District.

0 - http://store.anthonybourdainontour.com/product-p/burger-prin...

I'm a fan of Rain City Burgers just north of the U-District, at 65th and Roosevelt. Also, the happy hour burger at Jak's steakhouse near U-Village is great.

Dick's is pretty good if you want something (very, very) straightforward

With a name like that, and a description like that, you gotta tell us more.

Dick's is just a regional (Seattle-area) fast-food burger chain, vaguely similar to In-N-Out. They make really good, cheap burgers (for fast food), have incredibly greasy fries, support the community and all that good small local business stuff.

It also lets you make an incredible amount of jokes about eating Dicks that makes non-Seattle people look at you funny.

Disagreed. Lil Woodys, 8 Oz, Great State, etc.

Also Red mill. And super secret the burger at Nordstrom #1 grill (downstairs) makes the best medium 1/2 lb burger in town. At least when I frequented it.

Ok, yes, but have you had Lunchbox Laboratory's 'Dork' (duck and pork) burger?

The Swinery in West Seattle

Oh exactly, the place I went to last time, which does a rotating menu, didn't even have a beef burger. Only beef sliders, and then various variations on burgers.

Best burger in Seattle is at Two Bells in Belltown. Start with the Tavern Burger.

I live in Arizona and we're in a similar epidemic. Even places that offer a more traditional burger feel the need to 'elevate' it by putting it on an 'artisan' slice of brioche, using arugula instead of lettuce, and some kind of aioli.

To be fair, it sounds easier here than in Seattle, and everybody here has their favorite spot to grab a good normal burger, but it's an odd concept to me that we have to have recommendations for that menu item lol

I don't know if they're in Seattle, but Smashburger has a "classic" burger that's as plain as possible -- American cheese, lettuce, tomato, meat, ketchup, and mustard on a bun you can bite through.

The Shake part of Shake Shack is honestly better than the burger part. Shake Shack can't even shake a french fry at Burgerville.

Edit: Definitive nationwide fast casual burger total ordering is Burgerville > In n Out > Cook Out > Shake Shack > Five Guys

I've always found Five Guys to be much, much better than Shake Shack. The Shake Shack burgers are dry, tiny, and lack flavor.

Love In-n-Out of course.

same here. five guys burgers are better and their fries are much better.

At Five Guys, I always order my fries "extra crispy". Otherwise they tend to be almost raw inside.

Also a fan of half-frys half-onion rings at the Habit. With ranch dipping sauce. Oh, and sweet potato fries.

I find In-n-Out so overrated. The burgers are okay, but nothing special. However, their fries are totally worthless. Five guys has hands down the best fries of any fast food chain.

I think both Bareburger and Bill's Bar and Burger have better shakes than Shake Shack. IMO, Shake Shack has better burgers than both.

Serious question, might sound dumb, but what is a "casual" burger?

Order at the counter, no table service.

No waitstaff.

Burgerville is hardly nationwide but I agree they have some very tasty burgers. Fresh, local, seasonal produce + as far as I can tell their beef is legit (no antibiotics or hormones, sustainably ranched) + they have a vegan option if you're into that.

I think only five guys qualifies as nationwide as the others are only on s could of states. But you have burgerville on the wrong end of the spectrum.

I suppose it's a subjective matter, but I think Shake Shack burgers are nearly perfect. De gustubus non est disputandum.

Whataburger > *, just sayin'.

Smoke shack >> double double animal style. You can give In-N-Out more points on value, but whenever some one says In-N-Out is hands down better better than Shake Shack I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Leaving aside the assessment of quality (de gustibus non est disputandum, and all that) In n Out is straight up fast-food, not fast casual.

It's getting ridiculous. In my neighborhood alone, there are 8 "trendy" burger places within a few blocks, at last count. The majority of them are indistinguishable in food quality from mcdonalds despite all sorts of ingredients/supply chain marketing claims.

Tangentially related - For anyone flying international out of JFK in New York there's a Shake Shack in terminal 4 the international terminal now.

Its a nice option to option to have among otherwise bleak choices.

I'm not sure about peak burger, but peak burger chain would be nice.

Is the prevalence of fast food chains unique to the US? I spent three weeks in France earlier this year, I saw 1-2 recognisable fast food brands from afar and that was it. In 1-2 weeks in the US, you would see multiple franchises each of 20 brands comfortably? Here in Australia, there might be 5-8 quite common ones.

I know why they are popular - predictability for one thing - but why significantly less so outside the US? Regional populations? Developed earlier?

20 brands in the same area? Or in different parts of the country?

Wikipedia has this list, which shows a lot of variation, but I'm not sure how reliable it is with smaller chains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fast_food_restaurant_c...

Also depends on where you visit: the largest cities often have a lot more brands than more average places.

Frequency and traditions of eating out/cooking at home very likely play a role, as do food preferences (does a bakery chain count?).

20 brands in the same 1-2 state US trip. Say, driving from LA to Vegas. Places like KFC, Arby's, Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, Subway, McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, Carl's Jr, Dairy Queen, Chick fil-A, Del Taco, Jack in the Box, El Pollo Loco, Panda Express, Red Lobster, Chipotle, Chili's, IHOP, Hooters, Olive Garden, etc. Most of these are just going by roadside signs. There are loads more that you generally get within cities (Five Guys, etc).

In France you have a lot of "local" fast food in downtown areas already. There's the consistency argument for going to a chain, but there's also a decent amount of competition.

People are walking around more, taking mass transit, so foot traffic alone can be enough to get some clients. Whereas in the US, everyone's driving by your restaurant, so without those Golden Arches out front, you get about 2 seconds to convince someone to stop.

This is just an informed guess, though.

The burger is basically "American food" it really is hard to find outside of USA. And usually it isn't good, the meat tastes odd. This is even true at places like McDonald's outside of USA.

What? No. McDonalds in the US is amongst the worst. In Australia, not only is McDonalds of better quality but there are lots of new burger places doing better American style burgers than I can find here in the center of Manhattan...

Burgers are very easy to find in Australasia and Europe. Most pubs/bistros will have one on the menu. And there are loads of small burger places in Australia too.

One of our[0] US competitors, Momentum Machines[1], has apparently been trying to do a custom burger machine for 5+ years and spent many millions on the effort. Apparently they want to open a robotic sit-down burger restaurant. I'm glad we're focused on more global and less polarized/unhealthy-perception area of noodles+soups, and are sticking to a pre-order + take-away model. I'm also glad we don't have to deal with US regulations.

[0] http://8-food.com/ [1] http://momentummachines.com/

It's my perception that McDonald's has been struggling for 10+ years because of its inability or unwillingness to modify its unhealthy menu. Shake Shack traffics in the same unhealthy fare, but it's a go go stock.

I don't even care if it's healthy, how about coming out with a premium patty instead of dressing up the same core set of ingredients in ever stranger permutations at ever increasing prices thinking eventually they'll find something people will like - people are voting with their feet for what they want, better tasting food with not that much higher prices!

it is my perception that McDonald's has been struggling because it can't decide what kind of menu it wants.

It's not healthy enough to be healthy, and it's not unhealthy enough to be delicious. The patties are dry and flavourless because they're so devoid of fat. yet it's not low-fat enough to fit in most people's diets, while the high sodium content (across everything from burgers to fries to drinks) is also problematic.

A good patty needs to be juicy, dripping with grease that soaks through a thick slice of bread and some more that you can sop up with fries already rich with tallow. mcdonald's is not that. few burgers are that.

Its because healthy people don't goto McDonald's for food, they go to better restaurants like Panera Bread and Corner Bakery. McDonald's should go back to a simpler menu and stop trying to please the critics. Are are trying so hard to please everyone and not doing a great job at it. I mean you go into an In-N-Out and you only have a few choices but they are always busy and the employees are smiling and working hard. Burger isn't too bad for the price either.

Now as for me I prefer Smash Burger, followed by Five Guys and In-N-Out.

I wouldn't exactly consider Panera bread better than McDonald's. Panera's food is incredibly bland.

Can't speak for anyone else... but will say that I find McDonalds, Burger King and Jack in the box burgers suck... I'll generally prefer Carl's Jr./Hardees. There is room for better quality chains. People can taste the difference and marketing helps.

That said I've yet to have a burger as good as the first time I had one from Heart Attack Grill, they were never as good since and other places have been close. Just moved to FL, missing the chuck box.

I've heard [1] very good things about The Habit [2]

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wduZHtRbSkY

2: http://www.habitburger.com/

I happened to stop by the Downey location this summer and was very impressed. I had never heard of it before.

Habit is really good. Also Smashburger. Probably my favorites these days.

The Habit is great -- you can get bacon and avocado on your burger. Also sweet potato fries and onion rings. With ranch dipping sauce. And a $1 ice cream cone.

In Portugal & Brazil there's a chain of better (and more expensive) plated burgers that's being quite successful. I don't know anyone over 20 who doesn't prefer them over McD's.

They also try to present them better: https://www.h3.com/pt/img/ementa/french.jpg

What's the name of the chain? I'm in Brazil right now and I'd love to give them a try.

H3: https://www.h3.com/br/onde.html

Shake Shack came to Tokyo this year. While the burgers and shakes were pretty good, the price was a bit high (~1800 yen) for what you get. You can get a wagyu beef burger for around the same price (~1600-2200 yen) at a place like Blacows which absolutely destroys any burger from Shake Shack.

Are the prices more reasonable in the states?

Everything is expensive here in Tokyo. Did you go to Taco Bell in Shibuya? A crunch wrap supreme was something like 780 yen. 単品. By itself.

That's not really true, you can find tons of cheap, good food in Tokyo. But foreign chains? Yes, they will be expensive.

I've been to the Taco Bell, and it's definitely a disappointment. They don't have chalupas or even nachos + cheese and the prices are twice or more than in America. It's like they missed the entire point of Taco Bell.

Shake shack is the reason this trend has completely jumoed the shark here in Los Angeles. Premium burger prices for just a little better than fazt food quality? I can deal with that.

No phone/web orders and a wait in line like its some trendy club? Sorry

I do think there is a lot of competition/growth potential for the fast casual burger market.

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