Trump Has Called Climate Change a Chinese Hoax. Beijing Says It Is Anything But
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
[1] http://www.economist.com/node/13496638
[2] http://singularityhub.com/2011/05/17/eight-out-of-chinas-top...
Even among the Chinese government officials, those with Eng degrees are more capable and morally less corrupted than those without.
Politics aside, saying an Eng degree does help you understand why climate change is real and has a lot to do with Human activities.
However it is hard to evaluate who is more corrupt (in the sense of "cheating" with certificates), so at the end of the day we do not really know and have to rely on the facts.
The facts are that we have strong reasons to believe that humans are responsible for climate change in recent years and endanger several aspects of our ecosystem (there is a lot more data on that than on the analysis of the credibility of Chinese officials) and that a recently elected leader of a nation that has a big impact on world politics and economics thinks that it is a hoax by a foreign country.
There are two narratives that one could construct:
0. "Climate change influenced by the industrialization of
our society packed by big amounts of scientific data.
Elected leader is uninformed and on the wrong side of
history."
1. "Climate change is a hoax setup by a foreign country
and powers supporting it are part of a big conspiracy
thing going on that even goes miles to grant
fake-certificates to political leaders to support
the hoax."
For me option 0 just sounds more reasonable. If Trump continues his Chinese climate-change hoax he might be one the wrong train and he and his followers will look stupider from day to day.I have seen no evidence that China invented climate change. I chalk that up to Trump's propensity for hyperbole, but who first came up with it is irrelevant to what we do about it now. Also a fake-certificate is about the easiest thing to fabricate.
Let's just disagree.
As far as I'm concerned, even entertaining the possibility that efforts to counteract climate change are wasteful is a denial of scientific fact and a selfish, careless way to look at a planet that will suffer most immediately during your children or grandchildren's lives.
That got me thinking about how quickly primary energy sources can change (how quickly was whale oil replaced?), or how quickly industries can change (how quickly did industry change in response to the Clean Air Act of 1970?).
A century is a long time. What are you basing your statement on?
Renewables have already supplanted coal:
http://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2016/october/iea-raises-its...
China is leading in increases of renewable energy:
https://edgylabs.com/2016/11/10/renewable-energy-growth-iea-...
Granted, this isn't the entire picture. If I had information pro or con this, I'd provide it. Though renewables overtaking one of the fossil fuel sources is pretty significant, as is one of the largest populations leading growth in renewable use. If you have information supporting the idea that renewables won't be over at least, say, 60% of global energy production by the end of 2099, please share. I'm flexible on the 60% as well. What number would you consider "replacement"?
Note to myself: Do not engage in political or economic discussions on HN. It is not a save space and one should not expect scientific maturity from its readers.
"It is not a save space and one should not expect scientific maturity from its readers." -- these types of sneering comments are a reason why trump won
However it is sometimes hard to keep your Zen when so many internet discussion forums are undermined by alt-right propaganda.
In the United States in particular, climate change skepticism isn't about evidence or science. It's tied up with political ideology, personal identity, social identification, and a host of other very non-scientific factors. For instance, that some of the proposed solutions for fighting climate change wound up aligning pretty close with other liberal policy ideas (carbon taxes and cap and trade, for instance, were easy to malign as "increasing taxes"), which helped prime the pump for denying climate change altogether by seeming suspicious to other groups. Getting around these issues, especially now that denial/skepticism has become deeply entrenched along party lines, is one hell of a difficult problem to figure out.
There are no such proven predictions made by modern politically funded climate science. All they have are computer models which are constantly being disputed for being fudged to produce any result you want, and cannot even begin to predict past climate phenomena, let alone future ones. So to attack people you see as misinformed as 'not discussing the science' doesn't make a lot of sense. Global warming stops being a scientific issue when you start demanding forced government action. Especially action that would cripple the world economy and send humanity back to the stone age if it were taken enthusiastically.
May I assume you are that layman? What a remarkable mind you possess.
> There are no such proven predictions made by modern politically funded climate science.
> All they have are computer models which are constantly being disputed for being fudged to produce any result you want,
> and cannot even begin to predict past climate phenomena
> So to attack people you see as misinformed as 'not discussing the science' doesn't make a lot of sense.
It is very clear that you are not discussing the science, you're only discussing your political view because all of your "scientist" claims are just wrong
That's how you end up with people like Trump in charge. Did Trump ever have to debate the effect of automation on the economy and how he was going to handle an economy with more supply of unskilled workers than demand? Hell no, it just turned into a pissing match over a misogynistic comment and no information of value was disseminated into the public sphere for three quarters of the election campaign.
People are far more interested in lauding their moral superiority over people they (often wrongly) perceive to be less intelligent than themselves, than they are in learning new information. A well researched counter-argument to the latest scientific publication on climate change will get about 10 clicks and convince nobody, an article one step up from "durrrr this idiot politician thinks climate change causes every natural disaster" will get millions and sway an election.
That's why it's the job of everyone in politics to provide the best, and only the best, possible argument for whatever position they take. You need to give your opponent only one thing to talk about if you expect a response to it.
It certainly takes courage to drive the wrong direction on the highway and at the same time to claim that all the others are driving the wrong way.
On the plus-side if you crash, probably so does human civilization, so there won't be much in the way of history books to record this idiocy..
I've always thought that instead of government regulations we should just have a laissez-faire approach where externalities are assessed and paid for (e.g. the carbon-credit direction but much more generically).
You want to drill in the arctic? No one should be stopping you. An agency can asses the value of the environmental harm you are estimated to cause and you will spend an equivalent amount of money to offset the negative externalities. If it still makes economical sense to drill with externalities taken into account, go ahead and do it.
It will all depend if Trump is simply skeptical or has active interest against renewables.
My cynical grumpy core wants to parse this as "It's going to be weird to look at <Non-US> for leadership". But ask first, complain later. :)
Now imagine the doctor stands to gain tremendous financial wealth from this treatment in the form of grants and whole departments at universities. In fact, the more people these doctors diagnose, and the more certain they are, the more money and prestige they and the politicians that proselytize their research get. And the doctors making the diagnoses try desperately to discredit the doctors that dispute them, going so far as to call them 'crank doctors'. Despite the fact that no one will know for sure if the diagnosis is correct for several more decades, at which point the people advocating the existence of the disease will all be dead or retired.
Would you paralyze yourself for that? What about the whole world?
You surely must be joking, nobody can be so delusional and wrong
Blowing CO2 etc. into the atmosphere doesn't look bad in your postcard pictures, but actually adds to the climate problem.
Don't conflate the two things, 'covered in smog' doesn't necessarily mean 'worse than my industrial area with clean skies'.
And finally, China is making a ton of money exporting renewable energy technology. So China is acting very much in its self-interest.
Talk is cheap. China isn't reducing green house gas emissions one iota. However, China's leaders are smart and will put pressure on the USA to do so in order to give an advantage to Chinese manufacturers. Trump is calling them out on their hypocrisy. China wasn't the first to push global warming for financial gain, but they sure will if our leaders are stupid enough to let them get away with it.