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raphaelj

> My individual burden, however, is far more reasonable than

> an American might assume. I pay an annual income tax of

> about 23%.

How comes this number is that low? Tax revenue in France account for about 48% of the country's GDP[1].

I'm living in Belgium, and my payroll tax is already higher than these 23%.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

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In France you pay 0 % taxes for the first 9.700 € of income, then 14 % for everything up to 26.791 €, then 30 % for everything up to 71.826 €, then 41 % for everything up to 152.108 € and 45 % for everything beyond that [1]. Hence 23 % effective tax rate sounds reasonable for an average income of around 50.000 €. The tax system in many European countries is similar btw, as is the health system.

[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar%C3%A8mes_de_l'imp%C3%B4t_s...

That only covers income tax - social security contributions are heavy (but deductible from the income tax).

And btw there is a very good reason for those tiered systems. Imagine people making 26k and paying 14%. They end up with 22,360. If they get a 5k pay rise they make 31k, pay 30% and end up with 21,700. Would they want that raise? No thanks, but a system preventing some pay raises would be insane.

The interesting thing is that many people believe it's that way, and it can be hard to convince them that it's not.

That's not how it works.

You pay nothing on the first 9700€

You pay 14% on the money you make above that, that is 14% of ~17k€

You then pay 30% on the money above that, that is 30% of the extra 5k.

I understood perfectly how it works: it works how you explained.

My example was for a system that doesn't work in that way but switches from 14% to 30% for all the income, and not only for the amount above the threshold.

Maybe I should have worded it better but I take the downvotes I got as a demonstration of my point, that it would be insane.

You don't live in urban centers like Paris with 50k revenue.

That's a ridiculous statement, many people do. I personally wouldn't, sure, it's an expensive city to live in (I have lived there), but €50k is I think a little above the median salary there. You could easily survive on half that if you needed to, I know many people who do. Not everyone lives in the privileged world of tech salaries, think through all the jobs people do in Paris and think if they're all being paid 50k or more..

Actually, you do, and rather comfortably. (Sources: me, 22k/year after taxes. Or my parents who raised two children in a big flat in paris, both 35k/year)

There are literally millions of people living with less than 50k in Paris...

http://www.journaldunet.com/business/salaire/paris/departeme...

50k€ is above the 90th percentile. Maybe even the 95th.

Yes, you do. Looks like you don't know what you're talking about.

I make 1,300 euros a month (net) and live comfortably in the 14th arrondissement.

Income tax, however, doesn't cover social security. That's covered by the taxes an employer pays, and those are larger than 23% (but also contain other taxes). It's all detailed on pay slips. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_de_salaire

It's covered by some of the taxes you and your employer pay (though it's transparent for you) that are roughly proportional to your salary. For most people : Health cotisation : ~14% CSG (on all types of revenue, not only salaries) : ~8%

Some other taxes go to fund the medical system (e.g. Forfait social, Taxe sur les salaires, TVA on drugs), but as far as I know those two are the main ones.

It's probably tiered, like in many other EU countries. In UK for example you don't pay any tax on the first 10k earned, then 20% on anything between 10k and 40k, and then 40% on anything above 40k. I think there's a tier above it as well, but I'm not 100% sure. I know France has more tiers and they are more aggressive(80% being the highest I think?)

There's a 45% tier and also super tax that kicks in at £100k due to having your £10k allowance removed (so from 100k to 120k you have to pay ~70%)

Different countries have wildly different tax strategies. Sales tax, property tax, corporate tax are some avenues that may make up the difference here. Belgium in particular IIRC draws a large portion of its tax revenue from income taxes

Because income tax isn't the whole story. The French also pay social charges: ~8% on salary (and, unlike income tax, no relief on the first €9.700); ~15% on capital income (e.g. a house sale, investments etc.). Employer's also have to contribute to employee's social security (~13%). So, total tax revenue is closer to ~45% of gross salary (excluding TVA tax levied on purchases made with your net income). See: http://www.cleiss.fr/docs/regimes/regime_france/an_a2.html

Long story short: the level of care is fantastic but it costs the country a fortune and there's huge waste within the system (seen it first hand). Note too: most French also pay for private health insurance to augment the default level of state care (for things like dentistry work, optician etc.).

So it ain't cheap but if I had a serious condition there's no place in Europe I'd rather be to have it treated.

Income tax is not the only tax.

>How comes this number is that low?

A low income person in the US can pay effectively 0%. Your percentage in most countries depends heavily on how much you make.

I wondered about that as well, I pay like 40%...

40% on all of your income? Or is it tiered? Where do you live?

(Germany) well all taxes together, I'm not sure the social part is probably not a tax, but over the years it feels more like a tax, since you actually get less and less per year, but you need to pay more. I mean just looking at my rents or healthcare... The system is broken by design, since actually people that earn better could actually use a privat healthcare/rent. Well some could argue that people who earn more would abuse the system anyway or would leave the country, however at the moment it is worse since if everybody would pay, all people would need to pay less and actually letting people have a private healthcare/rent makes the system anti social especially if you get better services while inside a private system. The same with our taxes, they are too progressive, which means that if you are like me you are inside the worst part of the curve which is a little bit unfair.

"annual income tax", which is "impôt sur le revenu" in french, is irrelevant here, it doesn't fund the social security system.

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