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Comment by jdavis703 | Hacker News Reader

Yes I was wondering how this would work in San Francisco. There is a large mental illness and drug abuse problem, many who suffer from these issues find it very difficult to leave a bathroom in at least a semi-decent state. Does the city maybe wind up paying enough to the businesses so they hire someone to keep the restroom clean?

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I think you'll find that mentally ill people are treated differently in Europe, that would be a necessary first step of your want to do something similar in sf.

The low cost for healthcare usually helps, in addition to the social net. A social democracy surely has it's benefits. *Not to be going into a political debate here.

Yes I spend a couple of months every year in Europe so I'm aware. The thing is health care is better, drug abuse (not use, but abuse) seems lower and also society has less tolerance for acting out. I've got a lot of mental illness issues in my family, so I hopefully can say this without sounding rude. But a lot of people dealing with mental episodes can to some extent moderate their behaviour. Not that it's easy, but the ability is there. However particularly in SF we are very tolerant, maybe to the point of causing more harm than good. So then some people just indulge in their every impulse including engaging in poor sanitary habits.

While I agree that SF has a much larger drug abuse / mental illness problem, that problem exists in Berlin as well - even with the better health care system and unemployment benefits.

One thing to keep in mind when comparing homelessness in Berlin and SF is the clima. I don't know how much it contributes but homeless people in Berlin risk to freeze to dead. So I could imaging homeless people prefering warmer cities.

As if homeless people had a choice to become homeless or not.

Well, at least in Germany there's virtually no homelessness due to a lack of resources. The government has to provide sufficient housing. The reasons for homelessness around here are most of the time different ones than "can't afford to pay rent". In many cases mental health issues and bureaucratic hurdles which might be too high to tackle for those stuck in a difficult situation. It's mostly down to having Street Workers which are able to connect to those people and help them doing the first steps into the right direction.

People don't usually have a choice about becoming homeless, but their environment will affect how they respond to their homelessness. It's a cliché that some homeless people in America will choose to travel to California or Florida for the warmer climate (whether that's true or not I have no idea - would be interested in seeing data on that subject).

If someone becomes homeless in a place where homelessness has a significantly increased risk of death (such as freezing to death in Berlin), then either they move away, they engage with local support services, or they carry on as they are, risking death (and some of them will die as a result). Either way, the effect is a reduction in the number of homeless people at that location.

Thankfully a lot of places recognise some of the risks and try to address them. In the UK, many cities have a cold-weather response: when the temperature drops below Xº, additional shelters are opened, and street-teams look for people sleeping rough and guide them towards the shelters.

The post toilets in Germany typically have somebody sitting there, constantly cleaning the toilets.

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