For software developers: how to find a job with relocation to Europe
relocateme.eu
relocateme.eu
Edit: All the guys with great relationships... I was attempting unsuccessfully to be funny. Have a great weekend.
Edit 2: It appears from the replies below that 75% of men that follow a girl to another country find it to be the best decision they ever made. I would like to formally retract my Lifehack
Throwing yourself into radically different circumstances, far outside of your comfort zone, is also a great way to learn about problems which aren't evident from the warm confines of career or academia. I highly recommend it.
On the other hand, Trump and his associated band of fascists requires active resistance. Running away is counter productive politically. I'm reading the New Jim Crow right now, which talks directly about how the most racist, regressive policies in the US have historically been passed after the collapse of progressive resistance. There's going to be a lot of work to be done in the next four years...
(Sorry for piling on, but wanted to add a pro travel argument beyond 'it worked for me!')
[citation needed]
Trump has already backtracked to more centrist positions (which was expected by those paying attention). And you can't ignore that the minority vote for Trump was higher than the previous Republican candidates.[1] Additionally, women played several key[2] roles in his campaign and an openly gay man got a standing ovation at the Republican Convention.
Anyways, you could say the very same thing about Hillary, but with actual evidence. Saudi Arabia, an undisputed theocratic regime that is not exactly known for treating minorities well (especially gays[3] & women[4]) and is funding ISIS[5], donated a large sum of money to the Clinton Foundation[6]. This is very out of line with democratic norms.
Oh, and the DNC shenanigans with Bernie Sanders and Hillary's cozy relationship with the mainstream media (i.e, getting debate questions in advance). And let's not forget the anti-democratic Democrat protesters. Then there's the folks calling out for Trumps assassination and disturbing racist diatribes towards whites on Twitter. Not exactly democratic...
So tell me again who's aligned with fascists?
[1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellyanne_Conway
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights_in_Saudi_Arab...
[5] http://www.salon.com/2016/01/06/saudi_arabia_funds_and_expor...
[6] http://projects.nytimes.com/clinton-donors/
(Disclosure ~ I didn't vote for Trump. I'm not a crazy person.)
https://theintercept.com/2016/02/22/saudi-christmas-present/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/hillary-clinton-...
I agree with the gist of your post, but Sometimes the winning move is not to play. And if your safety is on the line, your life in jeopardy, or if proposed changes to government will soon put your life in jeopardy, "running away" is clearly the best move. Survival is far more important than achieving a political goal.
I'm of the mind that in 2016 we should be well beyond "regressing" to the 1800s as a society (but where I see "regress", some fascists see "progress" I guess....). If people have become disillusioned toward the fact that they will never change the hearts of fascists and bigots, I wouldn't blame them for leaving.
Fortunately, that's completely irrelevant to current events in the United States.
Way to live your life!
Hmm... Restraining order I guess?
People can have their adventure or be an expat, and that's fine, but it's often more about the adventure or being an expat than about the girl. Or they can get excited about the French/ Japanese girl but is it more about the person or the Frenchness/ Japaneseness?
Or, you know, the opposite. I didn't actually care if I moved or he did. The reality was that it made more sense for both of us if I moved, just like it made more sense for us to get married in the states. We knew each other about 5 years before I moved, generally talking daily.
Naturally, if you aren't a little adventurous, you'd not consider that a viable relationship in the first place, so sure, it has a little bit of it because it must for the relationship to work.
YMMV.
Some time after, I chased a girl to Japan, the best decision I ever made.
I, for example, have been trying to get a job in many of the startups in Amsterdam and Berlin for the past 3 months and it has been impossible due to my lack of formal education, or better, due to the lack of university degree. And to add salt to the wound, the education system in my home country forces you to pass +5 years studying just to get a Bachelors while you can get a BS in ~3 years in the EU and use the other 2 years to get a Masters (as in the US), so even if I had finished university I wouldn't be able to compete with the education of engineers that are already living in Europe. More than once my profile has been rejected by European companies because they can find someone as good (or more) than me without the need to initiate an immigration process.
Nonetheless, I will try every single website linked in this article because I hope than maybe one of these days I will get hired for work experience and skills than for my education. I haven't found a job in Europe for lack of trying.
It seems like a lot of the jobs I see are for such specific roles they have to reach worldwide to find someone with that knowledge.
The kind of stuff I only read about in headlines here but that I will never get close to at work or in a personal project.
I am just curious if it's rather hopeless if you aren't "THE BEST"[0].
[0]rockstar, ninja, other buzzwords.
Edit: It's true that I was already here in Barcelona, not applying from the States.
Were any of them willing to negotiate?
Also do you have any insights into why this is?
As to why, I can only give the vacuous "cultural differences". No idea, really.
More information: https://ind.nl/en/work/Pages/Highly-skilled-migrant.aspx
Highly skilled migrant visas do require you to work within a company who participates in this scheme, which limits your prospects.
This is in Amsterdam though, where a lot of people both within my company and outside speak English. If you go else where in the country, outside of North Holland, people defiantly speak less English and it's more advantageous to know Dutch.
I personally learned Dutch because I didn't feel like I could really assimilate without it.
I think you'll find that most tech companies in the west of the country won't mind at all, but in other parts of the Netherlands it can vary.
However, a friend got his visa for Germany turned down because he didn't have a degree.
If you went to Austria instead (of Germany), you probbably would have needed a notarially certified copy of your diiploma (there is a true story behind this sarcastic remark). ;-)
Also, my current company has been hiring for a while now, and we may be an outlier, but we get lots of applications from people outside the EU and always take them seriously. We've helped several people go through the visa process already.
Your email is not in your profile, but my company is hiring :) feel free to hit me up at david.carter [at] uberall [dot] com
Of course that does not help that you need a five year investment to get any official qualification.
I think I can recall 2 times where they told me I was ineligible (because they didn't specify they were only willing to accept EU citizens) and once where I got a declined email.
It probably doesn't help that 'degree'[1] isn't worth much but with 5+ years experience I feel like I am competent. Maybe just not enough or in the right tech.
It's rather disheartening, especially when you read on here about people getting so many offers daily. I know it's like a FB feed though and not everyone's reality.
Sorry for the rant.
[0]In the UK though so maybe they are even stricter than other countries. [1]ITT, it was enough to get me in the door locally though. I can't go back and tell younger me not to be so stupid.
Why of course? This seems very unintuitive, actually. Has your data collection revealed something interesting about formal education and its affects on certain roles that are not found in others?
Law is weird.
Do you know from personal experience that that works? My understanding is that you would not be allowed to work on a Schengen tourist visa. Wouldn't the process be more like "go there, find jobs, interview, apply for a work visa, wait for months to have it issued, find the job gone"?
Which ones? I've only heard of this for Germany.
Getting a work visa or immigrating into the United States is so difficult that I think it's hard for Americans to imagine, but it's actually pretty easy to work legally in the EU if you're able to get a decent job (and by that I mean that McDonald's isn't going to be hiring foreign employees and sponsoring visas) or obtain a business license (usually some fee for the application, proof you can perform the job you say you're going to do, and the onus of administrative duties related to taxes, healthcare, etc).
Plus, you can get creative. I was issued a 5 year "EU family member visa" just for having a Czech girlfriend. This gave me all the rights of movement and work that EU citizens enjoy.
What does the emphasis on education abroad mean? That the supply and demand for developers is inverted relative to the US? Or that they're behind the times and haven't figured out what we've figured out here?
To perhaps resolve this contradiction: In Germany you typically are not considered as "talent" if you are self-learnt, only if you have a formal degree (also for blue-collar jobs you do apprenticeship for 2 to 3 years). The mentality really is "if the person is not even able to get a degree/do an apprenticeship" how can he/she an able person. The only exception of this rule if you are self-employed - then it's your problem to find customers. If you are successful as a self-employed person or founder (even though you have no formal degree), you will still be accepted.
One reason (beside tradition) might be that in Germany there are strong dismissal protection laws. This means that after a probation period of typically a half year it becomes complicated to fire you. Thus as an employer you really want to go the safe way: It is not sufficient that you are currently good, but also that you are able to learn new things on your own. A university degree is a strong sign that you are able to learn new, complicated things on your own in the future: It is my impression that to get a degree at a typical German university in some STEM subject you are a lot more on your own in terms of learning etc. than at a typical US university.
Also apprenticeships of course finish with a certificate (which is often well-regarded for apprenticeships that are more intellectually challenging) and Fachhochschulen also finish with a degree (though the Fachhochschul degree is considered as "a level below" than a university degree).
TLDR: Just because university is affordable in Germany does not imply that most people want to go there. There are lots of other options such as apprenticeships or Fachhochschulen (and some more exotic options that I won't go into) which can be a much better choice. If people in the US complain about the high cost of university/college education: Why don't they simply conceive such alternatives, too?
It used to be like this in many places in Europe pre-bologna (circa 2000?)
I do have over 25 years of experience though, so that might be more important than credentials.
1) If you are moving from the US, you want to move to Europe not for better jobs, but for better quality of life overall. Europeans work less hours, have more vacation, and many more places to go to with a $50 plane ticket. Unless you live in NYC, your future European capital will likely be more diverse when it comes to culture and food.
2) Start by picking the city where you want to live. Scout it, see what is around, see what the people are like. Look for a job after you find that place.
3) Meeting people face to face will make your job search much easier. If you can AirBnB your US apartment, that might even be enough to pay for a trip to cheaper cities like Berlin or Barcelona.
4) Yes, you'll need a work visa, and while each country is a little different when it comes to those, generally being sponsored by a company is all you need.
5) In most cases, don't worry about the native language. I have found jobs, and know people that have done the same, in Zurich, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, and Barcelona, knowing only English. Once you settle, you might want to learn the local language for social reasons, of course, but there are plenty of English-only jobs.
I know a bunch of fellow expats in Paris. The ones that came here with the intention of learning/improving French are usually happy. The ones that came expecting to get by with only English are absolutely miserable and hate it here. The French (rightly) regard you as an arrogant prick if you don't show that you are willing to make the effort, and they treat you accordingly.
Yes, the other places you mentioned are probably easier in this regard.
It is - rightfully so. Expectations towards a tourist are very different and the matters a tourist needs to settle are much simpler than the matters a resident needs to settle. Interactions with the local administration, your landlord, ... A lot of that will be very hard if you're not speaking the language. Getting a grasp for the local culture is easier if you speak the language. Also, if you're still stuck with not speaking a single word of your host countries language, a lot of people will consider that impolite. Nobody expects perfection, but at least show a little effort :)
Of course my experience is limited and of course you would expect someone living in France for a long time to learn the language, but it's also a matter of good manners. I, too, would hate to live there if my experience is the norm.
EDIT: It seems that other people had the opposite experience so take anything with a grain of salt.
I speak French, but whenever I would get lost in a conversation, I'd simply apologize, explain I'm American, and am having trouble understanding or following (all in French, of course; its worth learning how to say it), then ask if they spoke English or if they could slow down. At that point, they'd express being delighted to speak in English, and I'd keep trying to speak in French. Made for some very fun times with all the people I met.
It's also worth learning how to say a few key phrases in the correct rhythm and tone. French isn't spoken with an English-like cadence.
On the other hand, when I lived in France, everybody loved the fact that I was making the effort to try to speak French.
YMMV
What's the ballpark value?
From what I understand wages are very low there.
So while in San Francisco one expects to make 100-120K, expect to make 20-24K in Portugal.
The good news is that you can live comfortably with 2000€ per month, as food and housing are very cheap.
(I'm a Portuguese guy working in SF)
http://notanomadblog.com/how-to-emigrate-germany-startup-job...
http://notanomadblog.com/startup-jobs-berlin/
http://notanomadblog.com/prepare-resume-international-job/
If anyone is interested in this and needs a push in the right direction, I'd hope these links help you out!
Also, if you're a Javascript developer who wants to live in Berlin, I'm trying to hire someone excellent. If that's you, please apply: https://sumup.workable.com/jobs/373611
Ok, enough self promotion. If anyone has questions about relocating to Germany or Berlin, HMU :)
The process you described is still probably the most common (and the one that I took around 15 years ago). Worth adding, however, is the new-ish Blue Card system, which allows folks with relevant education to get a visa for 6 months to look for a job, in theory, simplifies the visa application process a bit, and gives you a faster track to permanent residence. My wife is a more recent immigrant (from Eastern Europe) and was able to get permanent residence much faster than I did because she went the Blue Card route.
Healthcare and daycare aren't particularly difficult issues. The healthcare systems in developed countries are almost universally good. Health insurance is based on your income, rather than any pre-existing conditions or your job, and is universal. Day care is heavily subsidized. We pay €400/month because we're in the highest income bracket, but even that is being phased out next year (and up to now was only applied to kids from 1 to 3). Finding a day care spot can be annoying, but it's more of a chore than an impossibility. At our son's (public) day care, 55% of the kids have at least one non-German parent.
We're not far enough for me to have anything more than a theoretical view on schools. Private schools are very rare here. Public schools are probably better than median US public schools. They're naturally in German, with the exception of (in Berlin) the JFK and Nelson Mandela schools, which are bi-lingual English and German. JFK specifically reserves spots for American kids. If the kids are young enough though, they'd probably pick up the language in an amazingly short span of time. (We don't have any special plans to send our kid to one of the bi-lingual schools. I'm fluent in German and my wife speaks it reasonably well, and we're both permanent residents here.)
I have seen the Blue Card website, but never knew how it works! I just did what the university told me to do -- and knowing german bureaucracy, it's no wonder they led me towards "the traditional route". In any case, the blue card sounds like a really cool scheme, the process as it stands is so complicated and involves so much freaking MAIL!
- It allows you to switch jobs without an additional trip to the foreigner's office (Ausländerbehörde), assuming it was granted for long enough in the first place.
- It allows you to get permanent residence after 33 months of employment, rather than 60, and forgoes the German language requirement of such.
The visa for searching for work is particularly useful for folks that aren't from visa-waiver countries. Most people that aren't from the EU or North America require a visa to visit Germany, and the permit to look for work is a relatively straightforward one to get for those with a relevant degree.
Took me a few seconds to realize that it meant Hit Me Up :)
HN and other sites should have some sort of Internet text expander plugins or something ... startup opportunity? ha ha. There was a startup with a very loosely related (to my idea) product called Apture some years ago (used it on my blog for a while), then it got acquired, maybe by the Washington Post and shutdown for public use.
Edit:
Sorry, had the facts wrong - according to Wikipedia, anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apture
Apture was used by the Washington Post (among others) and later acquired by Google.
> We're currently investigating React as an alternative to Angular
I've done little more than a couple of test projects in Angular, but we have 2 production applications using React right now and imo React was far less difficult to get the hang of and has actually been a blast to work with.
Having a job lined up already is not required although you'll have to show work experience in the UK to stay after the 5 years. If you're in a marriage or partnership you can also get your partner's visa through this as well.
The criteria are pretty reasonable if you've done even noncommercial things like research and the "promising" track is suitable for younger/less experienced folks with demonstrable potential. Feel free to reach out if you have questions and I'll do my best to answer them. http://www.techcityuk.com/tech-nation-visa/
1. http://www.zdnet.com/article/snoopers-charter-expansive-new-...
There is lots of good advice on the Internet on how to learn a foreign language fast and it does not include "take a course" because the rigid structure of courses impedes more than helps. Just do it, practice it every day in every way that you can, starting today. No excuses. EVERY DAY. If you have nobody else to talk to then talk to yourself in the foreign language. This is brain training and requires practice. And just like compound interest, working for an hour or so every day pays off big in language learning.
Speaking / conversation is really important though, and I haven't solved that yet. iTalki looks good, but I've not yet tried any of the Skype sessions yet.
That's also my impression, having learned some languages in traditional courses and some others using Duolingo. It's not completely clear cut because there are presumably different types of learners, but yes, there are easier, cheaper, better resources than traditional courses.
And the truth is, this has helped far beyond whatever I tried to piece together myself. I never actually found it as an obstacle.
And the truth is, I found that when I spoke Norwegian badly, the norm was to switch quickly to English - both because most Norwegians learned it and it is more efficient communcation (and helpful).
Edit: this comment is being downvoted because I'm being facetious, but there's truth to it. No middle class tech worker in the US is spending 50-75% of their income on the list of resources in question.
Tech companies may try to solve this by avoiding employees with families and kids. "I want to stress the importance of being young and technical.. I don't know...Young people just have simpler lives. We may not own a car. We may not have family."
e.g. if the company pays you 100K, they may have to pay the government 10K a year in tax which pays for the services, whereas in America you may be paid 120K and then have to fork over 20K for those services
(all numbers are made up obviously).
Healthcare costs in the US are always blown out of proportion. No one is paying $30k for surgery out of pocket unless they don't have insurance, which is now against the law anyway. At most, people are paying $1k per month for a large family, and that's only if your employer is cheap. If you're a middle class tech worker it's likely you pay very little for healthcare if anything at all.
The problem isn't as much the surgeries, as some of them couldn't qualify without a way to pay. But can't afford prescriptions or to go to the doctor as they should.
Childcare for pre-kindergarten aged children is incredibly expensive. If you have more than one child, it is even more so. Even with one, a parent is likely to spend several hundred dollars per month on childcare during work hours.
Public education in a vast many school districts is not covered by taxes. There are school fees parents must pay at public schools. Then there are supply lists, where parents have to go out and buy supplies for their students and their classmates, all of which go to the teacher because the funding doesn't cover having adequate classroom supplies for instruction and activities. Then there are the actual supplies you fill a kid's backpack with. And even that doesn't cover all the needs, so every public school pushes fundraising activities onto the students (and their parents) throughout the year. Add on to that that work hours do not match up with school hours, so most parents add on additional daily childcare costs to have their children at school before school starts, and after it ends until they can leave work to pick up their child.
As far as college is concerned, you're sounding definitively like a non-parent. Most kids aren't ready, no matter how much you try to prepare them, to wake up after high school graduation and tackle college funding on their own. And if you're looking out for your child's financial future, you're likely to encourage them to avoid student loans—because you're still paying on yours and are wanting to help them avoid being in their 30s with kids, paying for that college degree that maybe helped them find a job that pays enough to cover all the expenses of having a family. I know few parents who say, "Well, high school is over, and you're 18 now. Abracadabra, there's the door, good luck!"
If you're lucky to have an employer providing health insurance, sure, you may luck out with a decent plan. But far too many working parents don't have this. Then there are fees to pay for each doctor visit, well-child checkups, and OTC or prescription medications for when the kids get sick—and, being weaponized factories of horrible nastiness who spend their entire days around other such buckets of grossness, they will get sick.
If you actually have children, and don't experience what the vast majority of American parents experience, you're incredibly lucky. Many parents would love to have childcare, education, and healthcare fully covered by their taxes. If they woke up tomorrow and had all these things available to them, I'd be willing to place a large bet they'd never want to go back to anything less—even if it meant mildly lower wages that were at least able to go toward everything else in life. Parents still need to have enough money for food, clothes, birthdays, holidays, vacations, extracurricular activities, sports, and so on—whatever they determine to be part of the life they want to provide their children.
I cannot complain about what I get here for that money, though.
I think people coming from a "sunny", southern countries (like me) would mostly have other things to get used to rather than tax itself.
I'd argue you can live a far better, less stressed and more fulfilling lifestyle in most countries in the EU on 1/3rd of the income as in the US.
I would say the prices of food were at least as high as in the US, and while apartments were not SF expensive, but probably more like a small Midwestern city. Not having a car in the medium sized German city I lived in was not the deal breaker it would have been in the US, but it still was a pain. It didn't seem like the trains were really that cheap, and we also have busses in most US cities.
So in the end, I don't think living in Germany or similar at a salary equal to $50k is as nearly as good of deal as working in the Midwest US for $100k or the coasts for $150k. I'd be better off working here, living frugally a fear years, and then just taking the savings and go on an adventure without worrying about all the visa issues.
That's less than half of my current salary in a city with double the cost of living!
(I'm in Ohio, but apparently London is even more expensive than SF: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+london+...)
London is an amazing city if you can get a good job, otherwise, it can be quite hard to live there.
http://www.monster.co.uk/jobs/search/?q=lead+developer&where...
In Germany for example, the difference between the median wage for the general population and the median wage for developers is much less pronounces than it is in the US.
You should expect to take a cut in terms of social status as well, being a developer in Europe isn't as sexy as it is in the US.
Same sort of consideration folks have when moving from a coast to, say, the midwest (outside of cities). You make less money, have cheaper rent, but gotta have a car.
Even if remote working was culturally accepted in ubisoft I'd want people in my team to be on-site for the first six months anyway.
No problem with that. It is even preferable. Also 1-2 week(s) onsite stints once in awhile afterwards.
I am a relocatee working in Malmo now. :)
Of course, the best hack is to live in Germany but work in Switzerland.
Also the living expensess are much higher in Switzerland. As a rule of thumb I have heard: "If you get two times in Switzerland of what you get in Germany: Take the job. If it is much less: don't.".
I am from India. So I assume my nationality will be an immigration barrier in most countries. Is this something I should mention while formally applying?
But on the flip side, we've been here 5 months and have already seen 4 volcanoes, numerous beaches with world-class surfing, my kids are starting to learn Spanish, and it's been a wonderful time to focus on what's really important for us.
I'd recommend it, but not to anyone. You've got to be prepared for this.
Perhaps worth noting that in some countries hiring domestic help is seen as a kind of social requirement if you're wealthy enough to do that. Basically for job creation. No idea what's the case in Nicaragua though.
If you don't have this specialization or not enough work experience you could try to look for jobs in remote areas where employers have problems to find people. The southwest of Germany with those zillions of small to middle sized mechanical engineering companies would be an example for that. Of course the cultural shock will be bigger than the one you get if you go to eg. London. Your salary also will be about 20%-30% lower then those in a city, you could describe those places as boring (or laid back, depending on your point of view) and you would definitely have to learn the language.
The one offer I received is about half what I make now. I turned it down hoping to hold out for something better. I've gathered that one's salary will very wildly based on the country (Switzerland seems to be the highest). The loss of salary has been disappointing and something that I'm willing to sacrifice (there are other advantages that offset it, like work/life balance) but not so much that I'm making less than an entry level salary in the US.
This site looks promising so thanks for sharing. If there are any more sites like this, or recruiters that specialize in this kind of thing, I'd love to know.
I had a few interviews in Germany and The Netherlands that didn't work out, but one thing I did notice is that many European countries don't have the huge income wage gap for software engineers.
An engineer that might go for $150k in Chicago or Seattle would be about 50h ~ 55k euro in Berlin. It works it self out with lower costs for groceries, better public transportation, reasonable housing prices, etc.
The loss of salary you mention might seem bad for you, but it's part of having generally lower income inequality. The wage gaps in America (a lot of it brought on by the high demand and cost of housing and our poor transportation networks) are not good for people without tech jobs in cities that are dominated by them.
Given the current exchange rate, that's a shocking gap between the US and Europe. People will happily sit in some traffic to make 3x as much.
But you probably won't have 4000 square foot house to store your 4 cars in.
Or more generally, you'll just have a whole heck of a lot less money, which was the point. I wonder if djsumdog was exaggerating, though, by failing to compare like against like. The numbers he quoted for US engineers represent the pretty high end. Are there really engineers in Berlin making a lot less than 50k Euros/year?
So what is the point there? So I quit and work for 3 days per week. Much less money before tax but after tax not really. I feel it is good deal to take 2 days back to life.
So if you want to live in Europe, forget about working for someone else.
- health and education are dirt cheap. This is phenomenal for a family (even compared to the the U.K.). The downside is you have less control on your kids/health.
- roles and culture in most companies are still stuck in the 90s. Push and evangelize on what/how you do and you'll get fitter offers
- you'll work less. More holidays, shorter work weeks. Life in Paris is stressfull so you'll need that. A nice bonus is that most Europe cities are a short flight away, great for week ends. Lyon/Munich/Amsterdam/Barcelona are all excellent places too (better than Paris and even London in many respects)
Hopefully we get at least some of you guys to move over here and push for a better community : )
Depending where you go, it's quite possible that a lower gross salary could end up being quite reasonable simply because costs are lower. (Although that's not going to be true in Switzerland.)
Let me know how that works out for you. Might have to shed the entitlement.
This site only re-enforces the fact that all the tech jobs are up north.
Sustainable energy company in Amsterdam. We can do visas.
I like the parts of Europe I've been to (Germany, Ireland, France, Austria, Hungary, the Netherlands)
Having said that, don't expect it to be better than wherever you are. There is no promised land.
I'm saying this even though I work for a large company with offices throughout Europe. I could transfer without any difficulty and get paid relocation to my choice of cool European cities. That's not to sound braggy, just to say that just because you have the opportunity it's worth considering whether its worth the jump for you.
Bigger things: being a native speaker, knowing how all the institutions (schools, churches, etc.) work. Never having to learn subtle stuff about how to interact in this or that rare situation. Being a citizen of the place you live. Being near family.
Leaving your home country has a lot of drawbacks, no matter where you are from or where you are going to.
German windows design and their obsession with fresh air is such a subtle but absolutely fantastic part of their culture IMHO.
I really enjoy living in Norway. I miss the color of dirt and smell where I was in the US. I still find the color weird. It isn't to say that I don't like it or that one is better or worse, really, just one is more familiar. SImple as that.
In addition to being an intellectually interesting exercise, every little change makes me just that much better at being able to examine problems from different angles and reframe my perspective when necessary.
This isn't to say it's always a walk in the park, of course. My first move from the US to China was a little rough, but totally worth it in the end.
So true. I emigrated three times. I learned a lot. But there was so much sacrifice that I ask myself now and then if it was worth it.
Her German was good, but one thing that stressed her out was dealing with banks/money. She didn't want to screw up, but her banks would refuse to let her communicate in English on phone calls (this might be a rule/liability thing).
A lot of people do speak English, especially younger people as it's generally taught in primary school, but I also met many young adults, even in large cities like Munich, who didn't.
But boy, the second I went into the old part of my childhood town and wanted to get some food from the bakery, not a single person could understand English (which is fine because I speak fluent Czech).
I had a situation about a decade and a half ago when a french person stopped by a gas station and the clerk could not, for the life of him, communicate with the french guy but within ten minutes, a bunch of teenagers were able to translate.
So it's not just official stuff (which makes sense) but also an age and location thing like you said. If you break down on the high way, stop at an old town, or try to deal with an establishment is generally run by someone over the age of 40, you can find yourself in an uncomfortable situation.
However, I'm kind of surprised at the bank thing.
As a Brit who's lived and worked in Australia and the Netherlands: just take the freaking plunge. It won't be the end of the world if you decide you're not happy and want to move back, and if it works out, imagine the possibilities.
What are you thoughts on life there compared to the UK and NL? Especially as a software engineer.
The weather is amazing, though the north is very hot in summer (duh) and the south gets its share of rain. NSW is pretty fantastic year round.
When I was there I worked for a tiny games company for a couple of years, one of the best work experiences of my life actually. The pay wasn't great but quality of life was good (I was in Brisbane).
Try it! You will never know if you don't! :)
- In Germany if you put up a web site that has to contain a site imprint. If you don't put all the required informations on it, you can easily get sued.
- In Germany if you put up an open WiFi, if you don't pay a lot of attention on the legal details, it can easily happen that you get sued if someone does something illegal on your open WiFi (Mitstörerhaftung; the internet dictionary that I use does not even know how this can be translated to English, because such a concept seems to be unheard of in English-speaking countries).
- The Datenschutzgesetz (data protection act). While I consider it as a good idea, it is very foreign for people from the US. You are only allowed to store as few data as necessary on a person and if necessary you have to anonymize or pseudonomize the data:
> https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bdsg_1990/__3a.html
You also have a right to get information what data is stored about you:
> https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bdsg_1990/__19.html
Such laws caused problems for Facebook: http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/en.html
- The (in)famous §202c StGB: https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/202c.html which makes it a dangerous legal gray zone to to security research.
Both the US and the EU have a long history of shutting down companies that incorporate "screen scraping" to gather data, even if that data is freely available or owned by the entity controlling the scraper. But the EU may shut you down whether you contact someone's server or not, on the basis of violating database ownership.
I'm not a lawyer in either jurisdiction so this is just based on my layman's knowledge and may not be complete.
'Fortunately' hardly any programming jobs in Europe pay over 100k
Might make sense to include the cost of living into your calculation, wouldn't it?
> Also if you are a US citizen you have to pay US taxes on everything over 100k.
I would guess that every country in the EU has a Double taxation agreement with the US.
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A German chancellor that is a criminal and is breaking German law and Agreements like Dublin III: priceless.
There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there is MasterCard.