Comment by gosubpl | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gosubpl | Hacker News Reader

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Solved problem in Poland. Actually I usually laugh when I hear about "FinTech" startups struggling to deliver technology that is history here. mBank has been offering "instant" money transfer for purchases for the last 15 years, now there are more then a couple of vendors aggregating almost every bank that there is on the market. Real time transfers have been available via BlueMedia (private company) for like 7 years and via central banking transfer hub for over a year. You can pay with your mobile via a couple of providers, including said central banking transfer hub (Blik payments). And standard bank transfers (take around 8h to deliver - depending on incoming and outgoing transfer sessions timing - there are 3 sessions a day) are free - so many people are used to pay via standard bank transfer and there are many solutions for merchants that do automated account scraping to match incoming transfers. Poland - the land of FinTech future. Downside - if you are Financial IT provider - you can hardly get anything sold here - everything that comes from outside is history here.

Yeah, I was living in Poland for 4 years some time ago. (2008-2012) and I was astounded how modern banking is compared to Germany.

Here wire transfers still take 1 day minimum. (Except your transferring within the same bank). Doesn't matter if you send the payment in the first or last scheduled transaction window. For the receiver it won't show up till the next day.

Our bank cards won't double as credit/debit cards either. We still have to get an extra card if we want to perform VISA payments. And NFC is still not wide spread. (though that might be a good thing)

I also like how integrated Polish banks are with public services. You could issue a tax or social insurance payment directly from online banking. Granted on the backend it's still just a normal wire transfer but that most banks have an easy to use form for that is great.

I still have my mBank account and feature-wise (and UI wise) it's light years ahead of what my local German bank offers.

I guess here in Germany when it comes to banking we're the victims of early innovation and have to cope with entrenched old standards instead of adopting all the nice new tech.

Germany has a very bad banking system, mostly due to the high market share of very small banks that don't want to or cannot adapt quickly.

Here in the UK transfers also arrive within seconds 24/7 and debit cards can be used for online payments. No idea why transfers in Germany need 1-3 days (depending when you submit it) in a time when there's no manual work involved.

As a Brit I was surprised when I received a reply on Twitter to a blog post I wrote [0] that said:

  ...in Germany nearly 80% of transactions are still cash - lots of places that simply don't take cards

Reading this thread that now makes more sense. We have it pretty good in the UK with contactless and chip & PIN (although I hear the Dutch have it better). I always feel the US is so backwards when I visit and they do the stripe & sign thing.

However, I still think there are many reasons cash should always be accepted. I won't repeat them here as they're covered in the post.

[0]: https://unop.uk/do-you-accept-cash/

The standing joke here is that Germany is a "developing" country when it comes to payment. 10 years ago it would even be difficult to pay with an international credit card.. In Sweden bank transfers are immediate if I use "Swish" and I use cash maybe once a month.

Here in Norway I use cash only at a loppemarked (literally flea market but generally in support of a charity, the local brass band, or sports club). Even these now have payment terminals more often than not, just not enough to go around so it is still quicker with cash.

> I always feel the US is so backwards when I visit and they do the stripe & sign thing.

Nowadays we're switching to chip & sign.

I feel we in New Zealand, despite our small size, we actually have modern POS systems. I have been using contactless Visa regularly for at least 3 years now and have switched to Apple Pay recently. It is so popular here, that relatively small number of vendors who do not have contactless, have stick a physical label on the POS device saying "No Paywave" so when the customer goes to wave, they know do swipe/insert instead.

I've heard that we are a test bed for some technologies, given that the sample size is small relative to the world. An example of this was Pokemon Go, which was AFAIK release first here in NZ (and Australia).

Actually it is 1 day maximum, which is the legal requirement for transfers within the EWR. If it takes longer at your bank, go sue them. But I can't share your experience. I've lately transferred money between three different banks, on a Sunday, and it all happened in near-real-time (DKB, comdirect and my local Sparkasse where involved).

I think the comedy value of the shock on people's faces when you pay at a place with contactless (some bigger shops have it) with Apple Pay is brilliant, though.

Yeah, the tech side is great, it's just a shame that borrowing costs - for anything in złoty, e.g. mortgage - are gigantic, saving interest rates are abysmal, and you really have to watch out for bad actors thanks to the close-to-zero consumer protection rights.

For example, a number of online shops show items as being "in stock" despite having an empty warehouse (or no idea if their supplier has anything in stock). It's possible to transfer large sums, and then have to sit around waiting for a month or two while the shop decides what to do, all with close to zero repercussions for the shop themselves.

If you've paid with a credit card instead of a bank transfer, it's simple enough to kick off a chargeback. (well, not as simple as in other nations, but a short form and a quick chat with a moody call centre rep).

As a recent example, I had a ~5,000zł purchase go wrong (to a well-known Apple authorized store) after the payment was successfully taken, but the store's website had an error and failed to process. Trying to get a response out of the payment processor or the shop was like getting blood out of a stone; the only thing that worked inside of a reasonable timeframe (I gave them a week to even reply to me on phone -or- email) was a chargeback.

While I can live with unfavourable rates, give me the UK's consumer protection laws any day of the week!

It's interesting how different people can interpret the same situation in different ways.

I am wondering why you consider borrowing costs for a mortgage in PLN to be gigantic. I just checked and the total annual rate looks to be around 3.3%. Is that what you consider gigantic?

I've lived in Poland for over five years now. It took me some time to get used to operating procedures here. It is different than in the US, which is what I was used to. There are things that are worse than in the US, and there are things that are better. It is not as horrible as you make it seem.

Like everywhere, you have to know how to maneuver. A person having just arrived in the US may not know what to do when faced with bad service. Things that tend to work there is insisting to talk to a manager, and threatening a chargeback. Both will be difficult if you don't speak English.

In Poland, depending on the situation, threatening to report the company to UOKiK (the consumer rights groups) works really well. This will be difficult if you don't speak Polish.

I've had bad experiences in both countries. These were few and far between, both in the US, and in Poland.

Regarding the bad experience you've had... Could the delay in replying been to language difficulties, or were you communicating with the store in Polish?

P.S. You're right on about many retailers listing stock they don't have. Lot's of just-in-time types of stores. It comes down to finding reputable retailers. Not once though have I had a situation where something was not shipped. I've made hundreds of purchases online.

>I just checked and the total annual rate looks to be around 3.3%

Lowest I've seen is 3% plus base rate. If you typed "poland mortgage rates" into Google, you might be seeing the same infobox as I am, which references a US-based credit union. Taking Millenium Bank as an example, the calculator on their site offers 3.6% - base not included - for 25 years on a house value of 1,000,000zł with a loan of 700,000zł. That seems gigantic to me, and over 25 years it's just painful.

In a way, this kinda illustrates my frustration with the country; you really need to read the fine-print.

> threatening to report the company to UOKiK

Which I severely resent having to resort to; the companies should want to offer great service, and not have to be beaten into it.

Thankfully, since I've been here, I've seen a great increase in the quality of customer service. The Polish people I've met seem to fall into two groups though: either they'll complain; or they'll put up with absolute nonsense for months on end. It's such a shame.

>Could the delay in replying been to language difficulties, or were you communicating with the store in Polish?

Entirely in Polish.

>It comes down to finding reputable retailers. Not once though have I had a situation where something was not shipped. I've made hundreds of purchases online.

Five years ago, I would've said exactly the same thing as you. Then I bought a house, needed an oven, fridge, washing machine etc. etc. etc. all of which - from many different shops - had issues one way or another. I also had the same experience buying tires online recently, despite having thought I'd learned my lesson.

I love being here, and the country and people are great. On a practical level, though, it's not always as rosy as it's sometimes made out to be.

Edit: while I'm ranting, an anecdote: tried to buy a new nice-ish hoover online a few weeks ago. Looked up prices, and all the major players have it - Saturn etc. - and I see a small shop that's an authorized retailer for the brand and figure "Sure, I'd much rather give my money to you than the massive companies" went ahead, and hey presto, I receive every automated order received/packed/sent email from them, only to have the owner contact me a few days later and admitted he had a problem in his supply chain. Fine, these things happen, he promises delivery a week later, and I go with it. Of course, their website still listed the same damned thing in stock and, of course, there was another delay after that week. Cancelled the order, gave my money to Saturn mutter mutter grump grump and had the hoover the very next day. GRRRRR.

>"Lowest I've seen is 3% plus base rate. If you typed "poland mortgage rates" into Google, you might be seeing the same infobox as I am, which references a US-based credit union. Taking Millenium Bank as an example, the calculator on their site offers 3.6% - base not included - for 25 years on a house value of 1,000,000zł with a loan of 700,000zł. That seems gigantic to me, and over 25 years it's just painful."

Sitting with a 10.x% mortgage right now in sunny South Africa. It's all about perspective. Then again, we're on-par to paying the thing off within a few years, but plenty of people carry their mortgage around for up to 30 years, or more with re-financing.

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