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Comment by raganwald | Hacker News Reader

Everyone is debating the whole "Good Faith" thing again. Here's a suggestion: Ask how it is "Good Faith" to "find" something in a bar? This isn't your house, your place of work, or a public space, it's somebody else's property (a phone) inside somebody else's property (a bar). Since when do you leave a bar with something that doesn't belong to you unless it's somebody else's spouse?

Long before we get to the question of how hard the so-called finder tried to return the phone to Apple, I think that wrongdoing occurred the moment he left the bar with the phone in his pocket.

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> Since when do you leave a bar with something that doesn't belong to you unless it's somebody else's spouse?

Since you're a good person who wants to call the owner and give it back the next morning before someone less scrupulous steals it? What do you want them to do, leave it there? Give it to the bar staff who you don't know? Give it to the cops who'll simply tell you to contact the owner yourself?

Pick up phone. Wave to bartender. Done. Or pick up phone, drop at police station, done. Or pick up phone, use Safari to place notice on craigslist, done.

Once I exit the property with the phone, I've done wrong. The onus is now on me to follow through and get it back to the owner, not take a half-hearted effort to get through to Apple on the phone before selling it to someone else who is also not the owner.

p.s. I see you've replied to my points in your message. This makes the thread of conversation hard to follow. Yes, give it to bar staff you don't know. It's not your phone, it's not your bar. It's not up to you to sit in judgment over them and find them wanting, especially when you end up selling the phone for your own gain. Likewise, try giving it to the police and see what they say. That would be a lot more convincing than not doing so and selling the phone later.

> It's not up to you to sit in judgment over them and find them wanting

Actually, I'm allowed to judge anyone, even if I don't employ them. So are you. We make judgements about others all the time.

I trust I will do what I judge to be the right thing 100% of the time. I trust a stranger less so. This is logical.

Suggesting otherwise reminds me of one of those 'don't judge my OSS app unless you wrote it' arguments.

Human beings don't need permission to make decisions.

What if he'd dropped it on the street instead? Should you leave it on the street, to get rained on, run over, stolen, etc., or take the phone and attempt to return it to the original owner? Finding the phone disabled, what do you do next? Throw it out? Return it to the street? Turn it in to the police? Presumably you've figured out it's some sort of prototype that is property of a corporation, so you contact them about it. No reply? I could see myself doing the same thing as the original finder, if all pieces of his story are to be believed.

We agree that the street is a very different situation than a bar. I agree that if you find it in a public place you should pick it up and try to return it. That's why I specifically said this isn't your home, your place of business, or a public place.

But if you find something on somebody else's property, you can find the owner while still on the property or give it to the person in charge of the property. Taking it off the property puts a very big responsibility on your shoulders to do the right thing in a tearing hurry or be judged a thief.

To me it is very simple. You can find lost property in a public place. You cannot find lost property on somebody else's property. The owner may have lost it, but you can't take it away. Going onto somebody else's property and taking something home that doesn't belong to you is pretty clear-cut.

A couple weeks ago I saw a phone falling off a biker's girl back pocket. I stopped and picked up, but the girl was already gone.

We called a couple numbers on her cell trying to get her to call back. Eventually she did - turns out she was running away from her family with her ex; and we "ruined her life" by calling them. She never came back to pick it up.

Next time the phone will remain on the ground.

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