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It's a class thing. Young aspiring tech entrepreneurs in SF are living a completely different reality from the minimum wage earning people in Las Vegas. Whoever he's hanging out with in SF is much closer to that crowd. So yes, of course people think he's a Russian terrorist. I know a Russian guy below said the same thing but there is generations of working class people who watched those action movies from the 80s and would think that. I'm 30 in tech and have lived in both sf and Lv and at least get what he's talking about. Look at how he's dressed, his strong "Russian" facial features and just imagine how he talks. He probably literally sounds exactly like the Russian bad guy from the movies. The people he's likely applying to jobs to likely can't wipe that image from their heads.

He's not a nerdy skinny 25 year old Russian with glasses and a MacBook in hand, roaming around SF from startup office to startup office.

That you guys don't get it is akin to the common perspective that was posted several times on hacker news and by Silicon Valley types this past week about how the left really didn't get the working class and that's why Hilary lost to trump--cuz I assure u his fellow 55 year old security guards back in Las Vegas made the joke that he sounds like a Russian terrorist many times, and it's no wonder you don't get what this guy is going through, you're likely the same people in SF that wouldn't hire him. It's crazy how perception can be the difference between a near-minimum wage security guard job and none at all. Im no different. There's plenty of candidates for minimum wage work, I'd hire the one who speaks English without that sorta accent. He'll have to have a network to get a job, which he admitted he doesn't since he's a private sorta guy. The guy's in a very bad spot. I feel sorry for him.

There's a difference between joking about being Russian terrorist and actually thinking he's one. And even more difference between that and denying him a job "because he's a foreigner". It's true I work in IT but I also meet other people. And both myself and these people hire and are hired. So I assumed if there was a strong reluctance of people in SF to hire foreigners (despite SF being a "minority majority" city, and having a real lot of "foreigners") I'd at least heard about it, as I hear about many other issues without experiencing them directly myself. Yet I didn't, so I want to hear about them now.

> There's a difference between joking about being Russian terrorist and actually thinking he's one.

From his point of view, what they say is what they think.

> It's true I work in IT but I also meet other people. And both myself and these people hire and are hired.

And how many of those people are foreigners with thick accent and 40+ years of age?

> it's so at odds with anything I've observed so far that I can't but wonder.

Can't but wonder... what exactly?

I've lived in SF for almost 6 years, during which I've worked with many, many teenagers from East Palo Alto/Oakland/etc., and while I still have no clue what it's like to be in SF as a non tech employee, I feel like I have a better grasp on it than most of my fellow tech employees.

The truth is that if you are in tech and living in SF, you definitely are living in a bubble. The San Francisco experience as a JavaScript engineer and as a dishwasher or security guard are indeed two different realities.

Pretty much every single minority (immigrant, person of color, woman, etc.) in this country feels that the odds are rigged against them, and that hard work does little against it. People like to think of the Bay Area as a haven of peace and acceptance - it's just not the case.

I'd recommend volunteering and spending more time around diverse groups of people if you feel that this stuff is out of touch with your reality. The fact that you've lived in SF for more than a decade and this is shocking to you means you're strongly due for stepping out of your comfort zone.

> Can't but wonder... what exactly?

Whether it is a real thing which I missed or it is a misperception, and how common it is if it is real.

> The San Francisco experience as a JavaScript engineer and as a dishwasher or security guard are indeed two different realities.

Surely. So for the latter, is there really reluctance to hire "foreigners", i.e. somebody objecting that their dishwasher or security guard would be from Serbia (or other country) and not US-born? How common is it? How these people staff their positions, given how many people fit one or another definition of "foreigner" in SF?

> I'd recommend volunteering and spending more time around diverse groups of people if you feel that this stuff is out of touch with your reality.

This is a nice generic advice, but I'd like to hear something more specific. I know it's different, now I want to know how it is different. How hard is it for a foreign-born dishwasher do find a job in SF? Would restaurants and other places commonly refuse to hire somebody as a dishwasher because they don't look like a typical non-foreigner (whatever that means for them) and how many of them do that - almost all of them, majority, minority, only the handful of worst ones? What is the percentage of "foreigners" vs. "non-foreigners" (whatever definition there is, not sure again) working such jobs?

> This is a nice generic advice, but I'd like to hear something more specific.

Googling "homeless volunteer YOUR_CITY_HERE" would be a start.

> Would restaurants and other places commonly refuse to hire somebody as a dishwasher because they don't look like a typical non-foreigner

Definitely. Many bars and nightclubs have an unwritten rule that limits the number/ratio of certain minorities at any given time.

> how many of them do that - almost all of them, majority, minority, only the handful of worst ones? What is the percentage of "foreigners" vs. "non-foreigners" (whatever definition there is, not sure again) working such jobs?

You'll never get this data down to a granular level unless people are truthful about their prejudices towards certain minority, ethnic, religious, etc. groups

> Googling "homeless volunteer YOUR_CITY_HERE" would be a start.

I'm not sure however how it is going to help me with knowing about hiring policies. Also, call me lazy, but I assume at least some of the people may already have information I need and can share. Maybe not true, but doesn't hurt to ask.

Not to diminish the idea of volunteering as such, of course.

> Definitely. Many bars and nightclubs have an unwritten rule that limits the number/ratio of certain minorities at any given time.

"Certain minorities"? Which ones? What kind of limits, could you provide some examples?

> "Certain minorities"? Which ones? What kind of limits, could you provide some examples?

This happened to me (am black). I didn't inquire about the exact ratio that the owner found acceptable, but he only wanted a certain number in the club at a time. Since I didn't enter and obviously never returned to such a place, I don't know if even 1 was too many.

> I'm not sure however how it is going to help me with knowing about hiring policies.

It is nearly impossible to get any quantitative data because it is illegal to not hire based on race, ethnicity, religion, etc. and it is not a policy. People are reticent to disclose their prejudices and biases to those who do not share them

Thank you for sharing this!

> Anybody has any experiences confirming/disproving such problems exist in SF and Bay Area in general?

Slavic accent here. People definitely make jokes and I will probably never get used to social smiling. People generally assume I don't like them and/or that I'm mean. Easy to get around with conscious effort (used to practice the american teethy smile in the mirror).

If you're in tech, as an engineer or similar, none of that matters. If you want to be a starbucks barista I can imagine it being a problem even in SF. He did mention being in the menial side of the job market. That market is tough everywhere and why would they hire a foreigner that's culturally different when they can pick any number of other people knocking on their door?

Menial menial jobs (clenaing etc) mostly seem a market dominated by hispanics here in SF. Maybe he's the wrong kind of foreign to break into the market and build connections?

Well, I guess customer-interacting jobs when you are 55-year-old and don't speak very good English may be a challenge indeed. OTOH, they also would be a challenge if you speak perfect English but are an introvert, shy or irritable.

> Maybe he's the wrong kind of foreign to break into the market and build connections?

That is an interesting idea. Would like to hear some evidence for or against.

> Maybe he's the wrong kind of foreign to break into the market and build connections?

That, and he's on the wrong side of 40, surrounded by young, low cost immigrants in a sanctuary city. Why incur FICA/Medicare/etc contributions for an actual citizen?

> Menial jobs

Guess we found and American that will do those jobs, despite the narrative we're fed.

I think the lack of network likely comes into play. When you look at service jobs, you will see some are dominated by an ethnic group or more likely nationality. SFO, Philippino; Nanny, Hispanic, Parking attendant? Barista? etc. Trying to break through those barriers is not going to be easy, specially when there is a pipeline established by the dominant group.

Slavs don't smile?

From what I've heard, social smiling is unknown in the Slavic world; you only smile when genuinely happy. I can't say I would object...

They certainly do, just on different occasions than Americans. Much less social "how do you do" smiling or smiling out of politeness. If you smile too much in situations that are not considered appropriate, some (especially people not exposed to American ways before) may consider you a light-weight and unserious person. You need to have a proper reason for smiling. A Russian proverb says "the laughter without a cause is a sign of a fool". Same goes with smiling, maybe less drastic.

Of course, it's a huge generalization, as many cultural broad-stroke descriptions are, but that's roughly how it is.

> You need to have a proper reason for smiling.

I wish this were common here (US) as well.

I think I prefer the US way. I know many people smile just to be polite, but I just like looking at smiling people I guess.

I agree, it's definitely more pleasant. When my mum was visiting she commented that the pleasantness of customer service was really amazing. What impressed her most was that there are people whose sole job it is to welcome yoy into a store.

But I have to admit that after the thousandth reflexive "How are you" without caring for a response, the novelty wears off. What if sometimes I'm not "Good, thanks, how are you?" ... but that would be impolite.

> I don't think "Russian terrorists" are even a thing in public consciousness. Is there some cultural thing I am missing?

They are, but only in an action movie setting (same with Germans in the 80s...and Russians). I've never heard anyone vocalize legitimate concerns about them.

Sounds like there might be some projecting in play...

I think in movies it's somewhere around 80s-early 90s, since then boogeymen changed a lot, according to current political situations. Maybe back now due to Putin, though, but can't remember any recent instance (I watch a lot of action movies, I find it relaxing :). "Russian mafia" is definitely a cultural thing, but different from "terrorists".

The Call of Duty games set in modern times are big on Russian bad guys as part of military or paramilitary organizations.

Perhaps since English was not his first language he meant something closer to "Russian mobster".