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Comment by JustSomeNobody | Hacker News Reader

Your know there are HN readers who write this crap. I wonder if they'll chime in on why they do.

  So the other day I met the guy who makes all that crap on-line
  I told him you can have my cash
  But first you know I've got to ask
  What made you want to live this kind of life?

  He said there ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on trees
  I got bills to pay, I got mouths to feed; ain't nothing in this world for free
  I know I can't slow down
  I can't hold back though you know I wish I could
  Oh no there ain't no rest for the wicked
  Until we close the shop for good...

Formatting text this way makes it hard to read on mobile and in text browsers. I couldn't even reply just now, my text wouldn't show up as I typed it, I had to click "edit" so I could view and edit my post by itself.

[edit] dang, can something be done about this? Flagging for format? Maybe a little drastic, but try reading HN in elinks, you'll see that a long line breaks the whole page. How about line wrap? Desktop users would be unaffected, and it would be a better compromise for mobile.

Wouldn't it be easier to just fix the CSS?

No, since the text used code semantics. A better solution would be to introduce a few more formatting options, such as attributed and unattributed quote blocks.

Or get a browser that works?

The web would be a lot more accessible if so many designers didn't think like you.

I've already fixed the CSS for hacker news several times; they always reject my suggestions though. It's like they want to keep it shitty

Flagging a post for the shortcomings of the commenting platform seems a bit harsh.

I definitely downvote Reddit comments that are all <h1> text.

HN needs (maybe has???) markup to break lines without double spacing as distinct paragraphs.

We never lost control

You're face to face

With the man who sold the world

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_DFrVkfy2Os

Cage the elephant- ain't no rest for the wicked

In case anyone is wondering

Ha ha, only serious, as they say.

While I can't speak from first hand experience, I have an open ear sometimes.

There are these developers who just made an awesome webapp or something. It's really great but there is a problem. Noone knows about it. But they have a solution for that problem. They buy some "promotion". It's articles in newsletters or outright spam directed at their target audience. I cannot tell you exactly who their target audience is but I can tell you who it is not. It's not you, me or most readers on hackernews. It's less tech savyy people with more decision power. Old people. Their site is made for old people. And they don't care about you and me or any other passer-by who won't pay a dime. They care about conversion rates and that is what they monitor all day long.

It's a bit like in those scam-emails. They are so obvious that anybody with half a brain will click delete. But those who do reply, oh boy, they are so ready to be milked off by that nigerian prince.

"There are these developers who just made an awesome web app or something. It's really great but there is a problem. Noone knows about it. But they have a solution for that problem. They buy some 'promotion'."

Buying recognition is nothing new in tech.

"Our startup spent its entire marketing budget on PR: at a time when we were assembling our own computers to save money, we were paying a PR firm $16,000 a month. And they were worth it."

Read this article, "The Submarine" ~ http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Why they do it? Easy. You are not the customer, the advertiser is. So as long as it is tolerable for a sufficient % of the audience, it is worth it.

Case in point, circumventing ad blockers. Audience explicitly doesn't want the ad experience, but Facebook wants to make more $. Facebook just announced a record quarter on desktop advertising fueled by successfully circumventing ad blockers.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/02/add-cash-plus/

I wonder which adblockers they are successfully circumventing because with Ublock Origin out the box I've not seen any adverts for I forget how long.

AdBlock has commented on this and seems that there have been intermittent periods of no blocking: https://adblockplus.org/blog/ping-pong-with-facebook

"While Facebook appears to have had the last word for now, this, friends, is a long game. That being said, a few other ad blockers have apparently found workarounds to Facebook’s latest circumvention."

That makes sense then.

At my last job at a web agency, I was told to make a newsletter popup that opened on first page load. I said to my project manager (he was a web developer before) that it was bad design and everyone finds it annoying. He said that the client wanted it, and I should just do it.

I asked him, what if the client wanted a pink unicorn gif in the corner, should we just do that as well? Without telling the client that it doesn't fit the site? He said yes...

I wouldn't speak so definitivly regarding something you don't know for sure. Everyone doesn't find them annoying enough to make them ineffective.

The website probably won't cry over your bounce if it means they'll collect an email optin from someone else.

Auto play video is bad for reasons beyond a pop in modal and reasons beyond annoying video ads.

Don't tell them yes or tell them no. Test, monitor, and promote the path that leads to the best success rates, acknowledging that user growth may drive success in the longer term. Take the long view, basically.

Individual sites can't measure how much their combined spam costs them due to the ever more aggressive use of ad blockers. In the short term, a newsletter popup probably does increase revenue, but acquiring new users in the future will be more expensive as a result because the cheap and simple ads will fail to reach most of the market. Unfortunately, nobody has incentive to stop, as they'll just give up the short-term revenue and still suffer the future consquences from all of the other bad actors.

need also to look beyond a month or quarter.

my wife has quit going to several sites altogether, and in other cases can not buy on a website, because of pop-up stuff.

So... if they're measuring for "email signups" then - w00t! - sweet! - numbers are so high! What about actual sales? Or repeat sales? Lifetime value of a customer?

I don't think I was very clear but yes, that's what I meant. You can't just look at the short-term gains of the promotion; if it suppresses repeat visits then that's a cost. And yes, it's hard to do, and is an art as much as a science.

He said that the client wanted it, and I should just do it.

Ask him to ask the client if that's the behaviour the client would find annoying if every other site also did that.

Mortgage payments

Because their PM/CEO tells them to do and it's their job? Most developers have little say in this.

Pretty sure the answer is: "pay check".

Not everybody gets to choose their job.

They don't live in a tech center and the local spam shop / crappy web property is one of the few local places who are hiring.

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