"You should just find that out upfront" I hear you saying. Well that is not always possible. Recruiters either don't know the range, or lie about not knowing, or you have to submit a big packet of info (cover letter, history, resume, homework) before you can even talk to a human about salary.
Another thing that companies could do better is think really hard about "required" and "desired" skills, and be truthful. Lots of companies list things as required which they're probably willing to bend on for the right candidate. All this does is scare off potential candidates (odd when you're complaining about that mythical shortage of engineers). On the other hand, recent events have encouraged me to not be afraid to apply for jobs that I'm unqualified for :) so maybe it's not such a big deal.
> There's so much song and dance that has to go on
> before you get to the meat of things
I had to say no late in the process to several companies which offered me the contracting-to-maybe-hire dance.
Never again will I do contract-to-maybe-hire.
> but companies need to start specifying their salary
> range up front
> I've been having a lot of time wasted lately by
> getting through Tech Interview #1 or Homework #1, only
> to find out their max salary is laughable for San
> Francisco.
"I am interested in roles paying above my current salary of $xxx,xxx only, and am looking for an improvement on that to reflect my increased experience and the risk of moving roles"
> Recruiters either don't know the range
> or lie about not knowing
> you have to submit a big packet of info (cover letter,
> history, resume, homework) before you can even talk to
> a human about salary
That's funny, I thought this was a employee's market... Better get with the program, bub.
I'm actually in favor of 100% transparent salaries. I've yet to hear a compelling argument against it that wasn't simply "it feels icky."
> I'm actually in favor of 100% transparent salaries.
> I've yet to hear a compelling argument against it
> that wasn't simply "it feels icky."
Are you really advocating that people disclose their salary to a recruiter, voluntarily?
What terrible advice. "How to immediately throw away your best bargaining chip 101".
> Are you really advocating that people disclose their
> salary to a recruiter
> What terrible advice
> "How to immediately throw away your best bargaining
> chip 101"
If they're an external recruiter, they have no control at all and are incentivized to get you paid as much as they can, as they're paid on commission.
Not only is it obnoxious to read on mobile, as horizontal scrolling is necessary, but it also fundamentally doesn't make sense as you should be able to copy/paste whole sentences.
One might expect that as a recruiter/(ex-?)developer you'd realize how painful it is when you use this formatting.
I agree with photogrammetry in that it's essentially unreadable on mobile portrait as you have to horizontally scroll each quote you want to read (then scroll back and again if it's multi-line).
Shorter >'s with italics are my preference.
That might be my salary. It might be my floor for moving to a new, more expensive, area. It might be what I think my current salary should be.
Depending on how things like bonuses are done, base salary alone isn't super relevant anyway. There's a potentially very big difference between a company that says "we give bonuses of up to 20k per year" and "our bonus target for good performers at this level is 25%."
Maybe 9 times out of 10 the recruiter says "sorry, that's not going to happen." But you only want to find the ones who say "we can work with that" anyway.
This may not be the best way to absolutely maximize your total, but if you pick the right floor, you can save a lot of time up front. And the way to really maximize your offer isn't to hide your current salary, anyway. It's to take that first offer to another other company you're interviewing with, and see if they can beat it. That's your best bargaining chip.
> State it upfront when you submit your application, rather than "find that out"
As an employee, I would say the costs of specifying my expected salary range upfront outweigh the benefits.
> As an employee, I would say the costs of specifying
> my expected salary range upfront outweigh the benefits
Got an awful offer to relocate to an area where 1/4 to 1/2 the house costs twice as much and I would no longer be able to work from home. I would also lose a significant portion of my life commuting. The offer was comparable to what I made working remote from Boston.
I don't mean comparable in the sense that they tacked on a CA bump to handle the cost. Comparable as in same money, but I would have to live in CA.
Ended up working remote for more somewhere else. Everyone's time wasted. I don't get it at all. It's not like they didn't know it was low.
Seattle is not even close to being as bad as silicon valley in housing costs.
But don't worry, they'll make it up with about $10k/yr of stock grants which you don't get until you've worked there 4 years.
I picked another lesser-known company and am making - no shit - about $70k/yr more than Facebook was offering. With stock grants that also might be worth about $50k after 4 years, though admittedly, the stocks are a much bigger gamble in this case.
If you are in the higher range of salary, you gotta find out which local employers/industries are worth talking to and limit your application to them. There probably aren't many.