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Comment by huangc10 | Hacker News Reader

As much as I want to support Nintendo, I have to admit I've been playing NES and SNES with roms on the computer since early 2000s. My parents wouldn't buy me any game consoles or handheld devices so the computer was the only way to go.

RetroPie and other hw apps would be fun to set up, but it's just so easy with emulator and roms that anyone can do it within a few mins.

If you want the nostalgia, just download the emulator and roms and plug in a $5 usb controller. It'll be over soon and it's back to the PS4 or XBOX...

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I've always had lower end hardware than my peers (still do, except at work!) so maybe you had a different experience than I did... But here goes my experience:

Emulators are much harder to play than the original console because milliseconds matter! Maybe not so much for puzzle games (like the Zelda franchise)[0] but certainly for action titles...

I don't know much about this "RetroPie", but it sounds like a raspberry pi, probably running an emulator on Linux. That's not hardware.

On NES hardware, your controller had a very real, physical connection to logic gates on the CPU (which happened to have a very real, physical connection to the electrons being shot towards your face by your TV!)

When using an old Nintendo, (or SNES, or N64, but only for SOME games) you got to experience your own limitations. The machine was faster than you, it never got hand cramps, etc. But it clearly wasn't smarter, it wasn't BETTER. People had beaten these games... So could you. You just have to try harder! You'd find yourself doing funny little things like holding the controller differently and trying to just shake your button finger, not actually raise and lower it, to fire as fast as possible...

When you finally did beat a game, you beat the exact same game, the same experience that other players faced, down to the millisecond.

...

0: Sure, there is some skill, but quite frequently the goal is to unlock some door or get some item. I never had any trouble playing Zelda games on emulators.

Great points. Yeh, I was more of an RPG enthusiast. Dragonball, Pokemon etc. when I did play action games, I didn't notice too much but I'm sure you're right, there probably was delay. I didn't have controllers back then anyway. I always just used the keyboard...

After I wrote that, I found out that by my definition, this new NES is "not hardware", either. Hmm...

I guess that Nintendo has thoroughly tested it...

One thing to consider is this NES Classic Edition appears to be an emulator. It consists of an ARM processor and some flash memory, so it's not going to get you that cycle accurate emulation any better than the current leading emulators (other than any improvements brought about by internal knowledge held by Nintendo).

someone has torn it apart. IIRC it's a custom board, but yeah, it's just emulation.

The controller you use can make a difference in perceived responsiveness, too. If I plug an xbox 360 controller in to my Lakka box, I can't get past Piston Hondo in Punch Out (inaccurate dpad) and run off of ledges constantly in Mario (dpad issues again, plus too-slow switching between A and B buttons). Feels like it's lagging, but my PS3 controller, even over Bluetooth, eliminates the problem. Even do fine at High Speed, which is very latency-sensitive.

[edit] fix street fighter/punch out character name mixup

The main disconnect is how much buffering/pipelining there is of inputs and outputs on modern platforms. This affects native games just as much as emulators, but most people don't complain because they're used to it. Modern systems driving LCD TVs routinely hit total input latency of 5+ frames.

Oddly enough, we might get the necessary stack enhancements for lower input latency thanks to VR development, since in VR it's associated with vertigo and motion sickness. It would be pretty funny if a VR headset turned out to be the best display for old-school 2D games.

>TV

Found the source of 90~% of the latency.

It is easy to ROM is but the appeal here the look, retro style and the controller. On top of that the ease for most people not wanting to setup anything.

For Super Mario Bros 1-3 and Zelda alone this is worth the price. And now here is your chance to get that console you never got back in the day.

Also the cost. Many times when a product is re-released the company putting it out tries to get every penny they can from you. This could have cost double the price and many would still buy it, but it costs about the launch price of a single AAA title. If you this thing with an extra controller that is like $70 before tax. I have spent more than that on a decent mouse.

It might be more expensive than playing ROMs if you already have a computer, already have a controller(s) and already have something set up in the living room. But I don't have that already and it would take me longer to figure how to do it well than it would take me to earn $70 at my day job despite my proficiency at pirating and already having several ROMS.

This is the intelligent way to fight piracy. Release often, with high quality and cheap.

>This is the intelligent way to fight piracy. Release often, with high quality and cheap.

Many good examples of this: Netflix, Steam, and now Nintendo :-)

> I have to admit I've been playing NES and SNES with roms on the computer since early 2000s. My parents wouldn't buy me any game consoles or handheld devices so the computer was the only way to go.

Hmm. Isn't this also an argument to support Nintendo now? When I was young I would buy CDs even though I had the mp3s already.

I've played them all with emulators (and on my original NES when I was a kid), but I'm still irrationally excited about this.

haha..I was definitely excited..I still am.

Same here. It's very, very hard to find controllers that feel right. I've been trying with SNES controllers for years, the knockoffs have terrible button feel. I'd pay much more than $60 for a 100% solid SNES version of this.

I'm hoping that someone will figure out how to hack it, because why not! and if not, I'd still be happy to own it as is.

Some people have more respect for intellectual property rights than others.

What rights? They don't make the consoles or games anymore.

The article is literally about them making a console with these games right now.

After 25 years of them not being available, and nobody saw this coming.

Edit: downvotes aplenty, perhaps someone could tell me how I could play two player Double Dragon 2 legally until this device came out?

Many (most? all?) of these titles have been available under Virtual Console or ported to a handheld for a long time now.

Double Dragon 2 is available for the Nintendo 3DS, Wii and Wii U.

But more generally, the person who started this thread appeared to be suggesting emulation as an alternative to this device. So in context, your comment reads as meaning, "Even though this device is out now, it's still OK to download the games illegally rather than pay for them because there wasn't a legal avenue to get the games before this device came out," which doesn't make very much sense unless you're just looking to punish Nintendo or something.

It was intended to be more like "if you can't get hold of a game in any other way, ROMs are an invaluable resource". I didn't realise that Nintendo had such an array of old games available on new consoles.

It's been ten years since I tried to play Double Dragon 2, the landscape has clearly changed lots more than it did in the fifteen since the console went out of fashion.

The existence of the NES Classic Edition says otherwise.

They still sell the games on the Virtual Consoles of the Wii U and the 3DS.

And some people still have the cartridges laying around in boxes from 1980s and aren't in the mood to lug all that stuff out, let alone re-purchase what they already own.

EDIT

I'm not bashing Nintendo's IP rights, just the notion that ROMS are inherently illegal/immoral.

Some of us that don't have respect for intellectual property rights certainly understand the concept of "plausible deniability", and how it applies to an ARM system running an emulator for 30 NES roms. :)

It's questionable however for those who own the games they have ROMs for. If you bought and paid for them, but prefer to play them on the PC are you really harming them by playing it on a different media?

I'm not taking a side, just saying it's debatable for sure.

I agree and have re-played many favorite games on emulators. Unfortunately music / rhythm games are generally unplayable on emulators because of the added latency.

Also emulators need better CRT emulation. Crisp and/or bilinear interpolated pixels look nothing like the original games.

I've spent a solid week trying to get RetroPie to reliably work with my setup, and then decided it's just not worth the effort. I would take this over the RetroPie any time of the day.

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