Normal for recruiters to ask for last 4 of your social / dob on first call? | Hacker News Reader

Normal for recruiters to ask for last 4 of your social / dob on first call?

46 pointsjackmodern48 comments

Absolutely not. I hire engineers, for myself and others, and the last thing I want to know is how old you are. Are they insane? I can't think of an easier way to set yourself up for an age discrimination lawsuit.

Also, for third party recruiting, I've never asked for anything related to an SSN. The hiring company may ask for that for a background check, if it is contingent on an offer, but not from me.

I'm wondering if this another situation where the recruiter is not in the country the job is in, because someone wanted to pay pennies on the dollar.

FYI, it's legal to ask for age in Europe. And in any case, if you give your bachelor's completion date, they can do the math to approximate for most people.

I don't think it is legal in the UK. I mean it might not be illegal as such, but it would make the employer a sitting duck in an age discrimination lawsuit.

In the UK, it is "against the law" (from the "Overview" page) to discriminate by asking for a DOB: https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recrui...

That page says discrimination during recruiting "may" be illegal, and that you "shouldn't" discriminate on age. It should say "is" and "mustn't" if it's certainly against the law.

My main problem with gov.uk is this fault to make clear the position of its advice in respect of the law, IMO it should link the appropriate legislation/caselaw as citations to prove the position it contends.

It is okay to discriminate for some jobs if the position requires it e.g. you can't be a bar tender if you're < 18.

You can't work full-time under 16yo, so all jobs require age verification??

In The Netherlands it is extremely common for applicants to put a picture of themselves on their resume... I find this pretty messed up.

One fucked up thing about my home country Sweden is that it's totally legal with age discrimination and even the state is doing it all the time.

For example, at specific jobs in the government you get extra holidays if you're above a certain age. Why they think older people deserve more holiday is beyond me. It has nothing to do with how long you've worked there since a 29 year old that has worked there in 10 years wouldn't get as much vacation as a 40-year old that recently was hired. It has nothing to do with experience. Just age.

I can say as a young developer, I have felt this age thing several times at companies. They just don't give you the same salary or take you as serious because of the age. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how much value you provide to the company.

That's kind of interesting, sort of reverse age discrimination. Although, does that mean they tend to prefer younger hires since they will take less time off work?

does that mean they tend to prefer younger hires since they will take less time off work?

Yes, that's usually how that works. Note also the salary aspect the OP already pointed out: they can get away with paying a younger person less, because this discrimination is industry wide and extremely entrenched.

Salary discrimination looks like a different issue. But again, you should worry more if it was reversed as you can see that your life experience is valued and not regarded as wasted. But I do not consider this healthy for the society if the disparity is too big.

It is hard for me to say if this is justified. Perhaps you could talk with more people about this (in neutral manner) and see why is it actually like this?

Wait 11 years and you will get the same amount of holidays as today 40 year old. Complain too much an you will get the same amount as today. I would say that this is nice to receive more rest when you get older as you probably are going to need some more.

How can you possibly know that? There are many 40-year olds that are perfectly healthy and have no children and so on.

Just like there are many 20-something that have children and a full schedule and maybe even health issues.

How many more days we are talking about?

But I really think that it is a good thing that it is not dependent on working within a single company as I have feeling that different kind of loyalty programs are approaching the serfdom in the longer run, as people are afraid to leave as they would not receive the level of compensation from somewhere else.

PS. I do not think that it is fair that some childless 40-year old are free riding on top of the society.

I think it is 5 days but I am not really sure.

You don't hit 40 and then stay 40 forever.

They stopped doing the age related holiday amount thing at German universities about 4-5 years ago (I'm not sure if everywhere but at least where I'm at). Their argument for stopping was, as you said, that it discriminates by age, which they deemed unacceptable.

Now, everyone gets the same amount of holidays, i.e. younger employees get as much as the older ones, not the other way around.

Its not them who deemed it unacceptable. Its simply illegal.

Of course, you're right.

> It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how much value you provide to the company.

Always be cautious when people are talking about how much value they themselves provide to the company. It's rarely in line with what the employers see. I've worked with a number of developers who've only a few years experience and think they're hot shots, but they leave such a mess behind them that others have to clean up.

Another thing is that older employees tend to be more reliable, and experience also counts. Yes, we all know the superstar workaholic at 25 and the no-hoper 50-year-old, but I'm talking general demographics. The older a person, the less likely they are to job-hop as well.

I mean seriously, how many 29-year-old developers are there in 2016 that have worked in the same place for 10 years?

No. Run, don't walk away.

There's no need to reveal that information until you've at least got a firm job offer.

Easy to say if you don't need the job.

When you're desperate is when you're most vulnerable. Unfortunately there are people/organizations that operate by taking advantage of this.

Oh, hell no. That's a scam.

Scam. Block their number/email.

I totally didn't get this, but inferred from a comment: "dob" in this context means "date of birth".

also: social apparently meaning social security number. some American thing obviously.

No, DoB is always Date of Birth. SSN is Social Security Number.

But in the US you can really easily get DoB from the SSN.

The interview training at my company mentioned age as one of many things we were forbidden to ask about.

SSN? It was so obviously disallowed it was never mentioned.

No. Or maybe, for an awful recruiter. Just bounce.

If you're in the US the most common time for that info to be collected is at the offer acceptance stage. This is usually a form you fill out for their HR system.

This might be different depending on the country. I've seen CVs that have SSN/DOB/Marriage/Picture/Driver License because where they are located that's normal info to have on there.

Must be a scam

I've had this recently in the UK where the client is Capita, who do insist on it.

And just like companies that insist on using the truly horrible painful Taleo system for their job interface, I just say "NEXT" and find a better opportunity.

A million times yes! Especially when you can't right-click a job into another tab. Where do they find these people, and who keeps paying them?!

Did they ask for NI no as well?

Very good. To clarify - they wanted the last 4 digits of my NI number (in one case they asked for the entire thing) as well as DOB.

In one instance the agency asked for the full NI number, probably because it's easier to ask/parse than the last 4 chars for some people, not due to Capita requirements.

Are there any public examples of this? I'd be interested in taking it forward to regulators.

The tiny bit of searching I've done so far have Capita including text similar to "We're an equal opportunities employer".

I know a couple of politicians who'd be interested too.

To clarify - this was for contract positions, i've no idea whether it's the same for perm.

It's hard to see online as it's the recruitment agency who ask for it as they have to then input it into Capita's systems. But certainly any contract role for a government agency in Blackpool is likely to be the DWP, they recruit through Capita who definitely have this requirement.

Preying on job seekers is abhorrent. Try to find out who they are so that you can report them.

Run like the wind.

Some candidate submission systems at larger companies use that info to get a unique id so recruiters don't double submit candidates. At least that's what the told me. Not sure if it's true or not.

there is no reason for the SSN digits unless you actually get a legitimate offer. there should be no reason to even ask your DOB at this stage, but that's slightly less worrying. but most of all, i've never gotten a job from a recruiter that was worth it. they are trying to get a commission and that is all. apply directly for jobs YOURSELF. stay away from 3rd-party recruiters.

What does last 4 refer to in this case?

The last 4 digits of his SSN. The last 4 are often used as a default password for financial accounts and to verify identity over the phone. Along with the date of birth (dob). It's a bad idea that it's used so much for security, but it is. It's a good thing for scammers to have and asking for it and the dob in this context is a huge red flag.

Phishing.

Employers, like your phone company and gas company, use your SSN to identify you in their databases because it’s a unique number. It’s the lazy vendor’s way to track customers, and the lazy HR department’s way to track job applicants. And it’s frankly irresponsible. > http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/7696/wanted-hr-exec-with-the...

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