22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)
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I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was paying hundreds of dollars to turn a dial on a deterministic mechanism...
I kept thinking "well, this is just because I've been out of the loop; with time, I'm sure I'll discover new nuances". But after chatting with power players and reading through forums for a few months, I never saw any evidence of that.
Still a great game. But a very different game from the one I fell in love with in 1997, and also a different game from when I last was really into it in 2007.
While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...
Also, the cards printed these days tend to not allow you to hose yourself. Take things like detention sphere, that say "exile a non land permanent you don't control." It used to be that those types of cards would exile any non land permanent, do a skilled opponent could, in certain situations, exile something you controlled by bouncing their only non land permanent in response.
Now you actually have to choose. Do I want this creature to deal damage or do I want to get the benefit of some effect due to sacrificing it or whatever. Sakura-Tribe Elder got worse but it got much more strategically interesting.
That's not to say that all cheap decks are boring, or all tournament decks are interesting, but cards like, say, Duskwatch Recruiter, Dromoka's Command, or Despise, for example, just offer more choices than Craw Wurms or Grizzly Bears.
Regarding what others have said:
Damage not going on the stack was a good change IMO. Sacrificing Mogg Fanatic was always the right play; now it's less obvious. I agree with akud on detention sphere vs. O-ring.
Hexproof over Shroud was a mistake; with that said, they seem to have figured that out, and we're getting cards like Pristine Skywise or Dragonlord Ojutai instead.
I'm sad to see Protection be replaced by Indestructible. Morph/Manifest and DFCs show that they're not entirely shying away from complex mechanics.
Or is it still the same ?
The strategy and game-play dynamics were awesome. Not so awesome: the fact that the amount of money a player spends acquiring rarer cards and assembling a deck dictates their success. It's a pay-to-win game and I fucking hate games like that. Not unlike paintball, he who spends the most on gear wins.
I spent about £25 on cards, and was probably given another £25 or so by a wealthy friend. The game was fine when played against others who had a similar investment, but the group stopped playing because of eBay: our friends with real money could buy what they wanted, and the rest of us could never beat them.
I think it was the first thing we did which showed who had money and who hadn't. We could take cheap plastic Warhammer figures, paint stars on them, and declare them to be powerful wizard-mages. Computer games were easily copied, it didn't matter who owned a board game. M:tG ruined the equality...
I looked into the game again about a year ago, but there were so many new rules (new abilities, new card types) -- I decided I didn't want to spend that much time on one game.
I think I'll be sticking with the eternal formats where cards don't lose 90% of their value in 2 years.
After selling my collection of cards, I find that I can still enjoy playing the game using the "draft" format: invest $9 or so for three packs, then have a pleasant evening of play. No more expensive than seeing a movie, and the playing field is more or less level.
EDH started as a community driven format with no official support. The community decided that your deck must be exactly 100 cards with no duplicates except basic land. This slows the came down and forces more board interaction.
On top of that 1 of your hundred cards must be a Legendary creature. Everything in your deck can be of a color from that creature and you will always have access to that creature throughout the game. This constrains deck construction and makes it really hard to splash a color for one $50 that would be perfect. Always having access to commander is a comfort to new players and opens new strategies to veterans.
To further combat this I have a pool of 30 or decks that I build with my friends and we play mostly from this pool. No paying to win if we are paying together.
For more info on that, including what percentage each archetype makes up of the total Commander metagame and what each costs: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/commander/full#paper
I have a tourney-competitive EDH deck that, according to current prices, costs about $400. That's a good bit... but replacing 4 cards with cheaper counterparts brings it down to $63. And I have recently seen at 2 other good EDH decks under $40 from someone who decided he wasn't going to spend more than $50 on any deck.
Definitely doable.
Except that it's not.
If you and I played a round of golf, where I used a standard set of golf clubs (not cheap) and you used a hand-whittled tree branch, it's highly likely that I would beat you regardless of our relative skill level. This does not mean golf is "pay-to-win", though; if you and I both played with the standard clubs, skill would determine the outcome. And even if you played with an average but acceptable set of clubs while I splurged on super-fancy clubs, you'd still beat me reliably if you were the more skilled player.
Magic is much the same way. There is certainly a financial barrier to entry, which must be cleared if you want to succeed in competitive play. And if you pit someone who has cleared that barrier against someone who has not, skill is much reduced as a factor in determining the outcome. But competitive Magic is like everyone having at least a basic decent set of golf clubs: everyone playing competitively has made the up-front investment in the game, and now they are distinguished by skill rather than further spending.
The set seems to be particularly sensitive to issues like timing, the order you play cards in, and the little choices you make. The cards don't have obvious drawbacks like Juzam Djinn or Jackal Pups, but they have lots of tradeoffs with the other cards in your deck. Choices like "what do I spend my energy on?" or "how should I fabricate?" or "do I hold on to the Cataclysmic Gearhulk to try and get more card advantage?" So many cards in the set force you to make little choices that add up to quite a bit of mental work.
That said, I'm only playing a sealed league so I know nothing about the state of the game in other formats.
Compare to, say, Hearthstone, where the digital cards have zero resale value, but the up front cost is substantially lower.
Standard is the most popular format, and has the lowest power level of the major constructed formats. Cards are only legal in standard for about 1 year. Most cards that are played in standard aren't powerful enough for Modern, Legacy, or Vintage, so once they rotate out of standard, their value drops.
Siege Rhino, for instance, lost 80% of its peak value by the time it rotated out in April.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Khans+of+Tarkir/Siege+Rhin...
Modern is funny. It's non-rotating, but has a fairly aggressive ban list. No big deal if you play casually, but it's possible to drop $1-2k on a T1 deck, only to have a key card banned a year or two later, or for the meta to shift and your deck to be hated out of the format.
Legacy, Vintage, and EDH are generally more stable.
By the time I've opened all the product I generally have copies of most of the set's staple rares and I can trade or sell anything I do not need.
It is a sizeable chunk of cash upfront if you specifically want to play constructed you can acquire 'singles' in pieces and build towards a deck over the season that way. I do not play standard at all. I'm a big eternal format fan (especially Legacy). Once you acquire those cards you can play with them forever.
One thing I have noticed is a lot of eternal format cards are getting thrown into supplemental sets (i.e True Name Nemesis, Shardless Agent, Council's Judgement, Containment Priest, Dack Fayden) stuff like that. Which tends to spike the price.
I think I might start trying to be the organizer more, it might just be that everyone is waiting to be asked :)
Also it's generally a very bad idea to try to build your own decks from scratch if you want to be competitive. Although things shift far more often (due to new sets and rotating formats), competitive Magic is similar to chess in that you're better off studying and mastering known-good decks, since very few people can reliably outperform the ruthlessly honed decks produced by the worldwide competitive community.
And yes, we spent our fair share reading up and talking to other players about their meta decks, that in itself is great fun also, just of a different kind.
I like to do this too
I also agree with your parent comment that they have dumbed down constructed.
It's more fun in person, but there's also a free community-made site where you can play online, and most players are happy to teach: http://jinteki.net
Fun fact, jinteki.net is written in Clojurescript.
I like Netrunner because I feel you're less constrained by your draws. You can run aggressively with an empty board, forcing the corp to spend money on their defenses. You can spend actions digging for cards you need.
Draws still matter, of course, but it's less common for me to feel like I'm trying to top-deck answers in Netrunner.
I still have cards from the 90s, I don't think I've bought anything in 20 years. Still fun game to play on board game night with friends.
You occasionally get Standard decks in your price range making top 8, but almost never in Modern. It's really stretching it to call the budget Modern decks "competitive".
Also, where's a good place to sell? Online or in-person?
Ha, I don't play with the Alpha stuff as much anymore, most of the cards I play with ate Unlimited and the expansions around that time.
I have a Shivan Dragon signed by Richard Garfield that he told me not to take out of my deck so I still play with that. He told me the value of these cards were in how much I enjoy them...
I do have a deck made entirely out of black border Nether Shadows that someone gave me as a joke during a tour of the WotC office years and years ago... most of them are Alphas.
I wouldn't.
> spending under $7.50 per hour
That's absurdly expensive.
Flying a plane is $500 an hour.
Golfing a good course is $100 an hour.
Waterskiing can be $50 an hour.
Skiing is $20?? An hour.
Recreation is serious stuff in the US.
(Lots of citations with a Google search.)
What makes it fun is that you're playing against people with the same size card pool as you. Draft is cheaper ($7.80) but it's over and done in a few hours.
Another unlisted benefit of draft vs. pauper is that almost any store selling Magic cards will have a weekly draft.
Its fun crushing decks that have cards that are worth 4x my hole deck.
You can have fun with magic without spending that much money.
Two, over the course of two decades, there are a /lot/ of good cheap common cards so you're doing it wrong if you have a 3-cost 3/3 in there.
Don't be fooled.
But I can also just print 6 cards per page from my black and white laser printer at a cost of up to 8¢ per page, or about 1.3¢ per resulting card (plus cutting them out with scissors). And, this doesn't require an upfront payment of $150+.
So no, I would not say the cost of just buying the product is lower.
The only sane options I can see are:
* Play limited formats
* Play casual with proxies
* Buy individual cards
That's exactly why I stopped playing it. It seemed almost rigged against poor people when I was in school. The guys with more money always had better stuff where we had to use cheap tactics to win. :)
My recommendation was doing it on computer with people choosing whatever cards they wanted. Eliminates that problem. Not as fun as holding the cards or being in person, though. Smartphones today give us another option where we could play it in person using our smartphones with two views: our cards and the board. Maybe even an extension where someone's tablet or monitor subscribes to the board people are playing on to have a constant, large display. What you think?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver... is vastly more meta, and complicated to the point where it is outright banned from the game for being a waste of time in all practical sense.
And that card was printed in 1993.
Infinite recursion until opponent stops acknowledging you and packs up his things and goes home.
(There's also a deck card limit of 4 of any one card. ;) )
But Magic didn't start out that way -- you could have any number of cards in a deck. (The creator, Richard Garfield, assumed that most people would only have a few hundred cards, so no one would have that many of any specific card.) I don't know exactly when that rule was introduced (Shahrazad was printed in Arabian Nights, the first Magic expansion), but let's ignore the rule.
So you build a deck with only Shahrazad and Plains (to cast spells, you need to pay the casting cost. And that cost is "white mana", which you get from a card called Plains). If you don't have any other cards in your deck, you can't kill your opponent. So you have to rely on the opponent losing another way.
There's a rule in Magic that if you have to draw a card, and can't, you lose. This is called "decking" your opponent. So if we keep recursing, eventually one player will run out of cards. But note that in most formats of Magic, there's no maximum size of your deck. Most formats have a 60-card minimum. So if you build a deck with 50 Plains and 50 Shahrazad, you'll have more cards in your deck at all times.
If you go first, each player draws an initial 7 cards (down to 53 in their deck; 93 in yours), and then on turn 1 draws another card (down to 52 in theirs, 92 in yours). On turn 2, you draw a card (91) and play Shahrazad, so each subgame consists of your opponent's library going down 8 cards, and your library going down 9. So start again. After the next recursion, they have 44, and you have 82. Then 36/73, 28/64, 20/55, 12/46, 4/35, and you win. You pop up a level (to the 4/35 game), and your opponent loses half their life (down from 20 to 10). You play another Sharazad game, and again you win, and in the 4/35 game, they go to 5 life, then you Shahrazad and they go to 2, then to 1, and you win. So at each level, you need to win five times (the branching factor is five). And there are seven levels, so there are 5^7 (78,125) games that you need to win through decking your opponent.
You can't pull this off in a tournament; you only have an hour to play each match (that is, 3600 seconds), and you have to win two games to win the match.
So if someone tries to Sharazad you in a tournament, they'd definitely be able to beat you, given enough time. But all you have to do is not resign, and they won't win; you'll tie the match. That's better than conceding.
Other interesting decks I encountered over the years: Wildfire https://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=sb20010619a Nether Go https://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=sb20010212a Forbidden Pheonix http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/forbidden-phoenix/ Mono-Blue Stasis https://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=GPTAIPEI00/d... And any of the combo winter decks (Grim Jar, Illusions Donate, Tolarian Academy, etc.)
Also Mythic Rares are super lame. It's a return to the days when you needed the "Power 9" (actually Power 10 when you include Library pf Alexandria") to be competitive.
I really don't see how actually interacting with your opponent is less "brainy" than comboing out. Building a combo deck to win turn 1 reliably is not as difficult as actually interacting with your opponent and forcing them into submission. To win with a good combo, just assemble the deck with dollars and learn to pilot it on its own in a vacuum and tada you can win all kinds of tournaments at the local game store. Its not hard, its just a formula.
If a format is balanced enough that there are no instant win combos available then players, regardless of wealth, actually need to deal with interaction. I think this is a good thing. I shouldn't just win by showing up because I can put any card I want in any deck. Currently this is the state of EDH for me.
In a typical Academy deck (pure combo) you just built a 56 card combo deck and slammed in 4 force of wills for protection. A game will another is only slightly harder to win than a game against a goldfish. If the metagame decisions around your control go beyond "How do I defeat the one thing that stops me" you probably weren't playing an optimal version of that deck. Academy decks should be winning before turn 3 100% of the time.
Someone mentioned Prosbloom, I was under the impression it won 3 or 4 with a city of solitude in play. Pretty much the only question you need to ask about that metagame is "How do deal with someone stopping my turn 2 squandered resources?". Versions dealt with that with copious use of 4x enlightened tutor and 4x vampiric tutor, not a real metagame choice.
In Illusions/Donate (combo/control) you build and play a blue/white control deck with a win condition that sometimes saves you the hassle of having to interact. You are still playing a two player game with removal and sometimes even creatures, but your wins come in fast from nowhere. There were several ways to interfere because the win could come well after control was seized or sometimes just before the aggro player attempts to win.
Try pulling off anything of that consistency when you cannot run duplicates of your combos and need to run 100 cards. This is what EDH looks like. Actual thought on deck design because you can't easily build a well oiled machine from cookie cutter parts. When running it feels like trying to win a race while building the racecar from secondhand parts. There is immense challenge and complex decisions.
The combo decks look totally different and barring an extreme outliers (Arcum Dagson and Narset) it is nearly impossible to build a deck that wins consistently without actual board interaction.
Things like the DCI Balance and Force of will might be worth a thousand dollars but there are cheaper versions of those cards out there. They even reprinted force of will this year.
In the current set they're known as "inventions"
Originally, they were meant for cards that were too strange to come up often in limited play, so this slot was just to get the weird effects to show up less in drafts. However, over time, it turned into every single card that would be a great high priced single turns into a mythic rare. I stand by my statement that this rarity was the biggest scam in the history of MTG, and most players ate MaRo's blog post introducing them right up.
That's just a blatant exaggeration. They do a pretty good job of ensuring that not all the mythics are chase/staple cards in most sets. And there are still plenty of weird/garbage cards in the mythic slot that you definitely don't want in limited.
That said I agree that it was mostly a financial decision, but I can't really fault Wizards for making it. Other successful card games have had more than three rarity tiers for years - Magic just gets additional pushback because it's so old that a segment of the player population has unrealistic/unfair expectations of stability, as if their sentimental attachment to the way things are should outweigh Wizards/Hasbro's financial imperatives.
> Magic is the only major trading card game currently printed with only three rarities. If we want to stay competitive in attracting new players we have to keep up with the industry standards.
> We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells.
[1] http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/ye...
They've avoided this for the most part. (Except with reprints where they do not wish to devalue the card and affect the secondary market.)
But I think in practice it's mostly about the money.
They've been sitting on a shelf for a few too many years.
Otherwise you will sell in bulk and maybe get 20% of the price. Any magic store will buy it all.
The latest block set introduced a new mechanic that substantially expands the design space and the set just before that, Conspiracy: Take the Crown is a mix of drafting complexity and a substantial amount of multiplayer complexity.
All I hear is that Magic introduced a stack system in 1999 and apparently that dumbed it down to unplayability.
The past two releases and the next two this month are huge recent evidence to the contrary. It's the same with getting rid of Mana Burn, removing it reduce complexity and made some archetypes useless. But the mental space it previously occupied was filled with the opportunity to expand there design space and make it a more varied game.
A new Archenemy set is due next year too. So with just the releases over a year you'd be able to play Archenemy Planechase Conspiracy (or at least the draft cards, god knows how to combine those with EDH though, probably just cube?) EDH. Anyone who'd think that shirks complexity is wrong.
And here's a wonderful little doc on Vice about Magic, and a group of people who play what's now called Vintage Magic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plr81gaUIr0
Very annoyingly, the glue on the packs failed after 22 yrs, causing most to open up. Bummer.
I'm curious what they could have been worth if the glue didn't fail.
We've earned some money back helping people find out what's in a pack before they've opened it.
Gladly I've sold most of the stuff before the first MG bubble burst.
I'm glad people still enjoy it, but for me at least it was deliberately dumbed down after the Urza's block and has stayed at that level since then.
Near Omaha often?