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Comment by sidcool | Hacker News Reader

How addictive is tobacco/smoking as compared to Opiates/Heroin?

I've once read somewhere that they polled heroin addicts, asking them what they'd rather do first time they wake up in the morning - shoot heroin or smoke a cigarette.

Of course the vast majority said they'd smoke a cigarette.

I've never been a heroin addict, but I've been a tobacco smoker for many years and I can confirm that smoking a cig was definitely the most important thing I had to do in the morning.

Also if I had to spend my last money on food or a pack of cigarettes, obviously and without further consideration, I would choose the cigarettes.

So yeah, pretty addictive.

What kinds of cigarettes were you smoking exactly?

I started with Lucky Strike, then smoked Marlboro Lights for about 18 years, then the last two years or so I smoked organic rolling tobacco - Cross Road.

I've stopped smoking 18 months ago, but even after 1.5 years, I still get the urge to smoke almost every day.

How old were you when you first smoked?

I have anecdotally heard that if one had not smoked by adulthood, chances of addiction are fairly low.

My own experience confirms this. I am not addicted, I started well after thirty and I only smoke real tobacco. Instead of mental fog on a month without tobacco I am getting the previous default state of mind, and after a pipe, I am getting very cool focus.

In my experience the urge went away completely after several years..

I've stopped smoking a week ago and brain fog is killing me, I'm not able to do my job any more, any advice ? I just sit and stare at monitor without my brain working :/

Nicotine gum? The danger is in the smoking, not the addictive substance.

Smoking breaks are a social activity in many workplaces.

Its hard to get rid of those sort of addictions.

> The danger is in the smoking, not the addictive substance.

Actually, that's incorrect. Nicotine acts as a stimulant and constricts blood vessels, which causes all kinds of serious circulatory problems in the long term - high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes and so on.

Unfortunately there's no easy way around nicotine, you just have to stop ingesting it.

The gum/patch can alleviate the withdrawal symptoms, but you'll still have to quit the gum.

From http://whyquit.com/pr/082613.html

A 2013 Gallup Poll finds that 92% of successful ex-smokers did not use the nicotine patch, gum, Zyban, Chantix or Champix, that most quit smoking cold turkey.

Ehh, sez you..

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/130/16/1418

"There are some studies of prolonged nicotine replacement therapies (NRT) in smokers who have quit smoking. In these studies, no adverse effects have been found when nicotine medication was administered for months to several years. Other studies indicate that patients with known cardiovascular disease tolerate NRT well for periods up to 12 weeks. "

By far, the danger is in the smoking, not the nicotine in your bloodstream.

The Gallup survey

http://www.gallup.com/poll/163763/smokers-quit-tried-multipl...

allowed an open-ended response, so someone "might have decided to quit" or quit because "it was time" but also used an NRT to help them through the cravings and not have mentioned that to the interviewer.

Yes. This will go away after a couple of weeks. Depression is a common side effect of quitting, so hang in there. First 2 weeks are the hardest, then it slowly gets easier.

There are few short term advantages to quitting smoking - your sense of smell improves and you have more spare time on your hands - other than that, there's little to brag about.

By going through this short term suffering, you're improving your long term health.

If someone (God) came to you and said: "Hey, I'll add 10 healthy years to your life if you agree to go through a period of feeling shitty and some mental fog and restlessness and nervousness for a couple of months".

I guess we'd all agree to such a deal and it's pretty much the deal you have right now, so hang on.

Congratulations on your decision and good luck !

Cigarettes except your last one roll it yourself real tobacco contained additives that made you neural system very succeptible to nicotine, there is biochemical evidence for your case. Were you using plasters like Nicotinelle to quit, or just took off on a bare will?

I'll just note that these patterns aren't universal. I have been a smoker for almost 20 years (with some prolonged breaks along the way (one lasting around 3-4 years)). I almost never smoke in the morning (and never did). I currently smoke no more than a pack a week, easily skipping several days at a time.

I'd choose the food.

"Animal studies by NIDA-funded researchers have shown that acetaldehyde, another chemical found in tobacco smoke, dramatically increases the reinforcing properties of nicotine and may also contribute to tobacco addiction. The investigators further report that this effect is age-related: adolescent animals display far more sensitivity to this reinforcing effect, which suggests that the brains of adolescents may be more vulnerable to tobacco addiction."

I'd be interested to know how variable it is from person to person. I had long-term (>1y) treatment with reasonably high doses of fairly mild opiates (tramadol/codeine) twice, as well long-term treatment with benzodiazepines, and each time I literally just stopped - no tapering or dose reduction, no withdrawal or ill effects (aside from the original pain returning), and no cravings to seek more

Cigarettes, on the other hand, I've smoked a couple of times (1 or 2 cigarettes each time), and every time there's been this thought at the back of my head "I should get some cigarettes" for most of the following day. It's obviously not addiction and easy enough to ignore, but it's definitely a noticeable effect. Interestingly two lengthy (4 hour plus) shisha sessions didn't have the same effect (was a little light-headed and felt like I'd had about 50 cups of coffee, but no effects or cravings the following day).

Not exactly an answer to your question, but some years ago (2010) this report was made in the UK about the Harm Caused By Drugs:

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/or...

Edit: here another chart showing the 'dependence' of tobacco is very high:

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/files/1-medical-marijuana...

Considering opiate withdraw can cause death I'd say tobacco is less addictive

Opioid withdrawal while uncomfortable generally does not lead to death.

However withdrawal from benzodiazepines and alcohol are both very dangerous and can lead to death.

http://americanaddictioncenters.org/withdrawal-timelines-tre...

Actually I believe clinically, "addictiveness" is measured by what it takes to develop a dependence in the first place, rather that what it takes to get rid of that dependence or even the physical effects of an abrupt cessation. I heard somewhere (sorry no references) that by that measure, nicotine is one of if not the most addictive substance known.

I think your definitions are almost correct here. Addiction is actually defined as a medical condition ”characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences". So addiction is technically a mental thing and susceptibility to it depends not just on the drug, but on the person, mentality, self control, etc. When a lot of people talk about addiction they are actually thinking of dependence, susceptibility to which is only dependent on the drug and the amount of use. You can have one, or the other, or both.

I believe that while both nicotine and opiates can be addictive from first use, it takes a much longer prolonged use of nicotine to form a strong physical dependence (from personal experience, on the order of a few years of regular use), unlike opiates which can form a strong physical dependence after just a short time (as little as just a few weeks of regular use).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

I think you need very large quantities of whatever is in tobacco that makes you addicted to have physical dependency on it. (Is it nicotine?)

I smoke a pipe on weekends. I have no physical craving for tobacco during the week and sometimes I just don't want to even on the weekends. The most amount of cigarettes I had throughout my life was probably equal to one pack and I never inhaled it because I don't feel like choking on smoke.

The worst effect I get with nicotine is dizziness but never any physical dependency or withdrawal from its absence in my body.

I just wish they did more studies on the effects of occasional use of tobacco, via pipes and cigars to see the effect of what occasional smoking does to someone.

I love nicotine despite the "factoid" about its' addictiveness I listed above, and I say that as a former smoker (sometimes up to a pack a day, for about 6 years). I'm actually at the point where I can smoke occssionally and not feel the need to keep smoking, although I would simply prefer to vape anyway, personally. I too would like to know more about the effect of occasional smoking.

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