A Desk That Allows You to Stand or Sit | Hacker News Reader

A Desk That Allows You to Stand or Sit

nytimes.com

140 pointstroystribling102 comments

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I built my own for $200. Mine has a treadmill underneath it too.

http://blog.8thlight.com/articles/2010/2/25/walk-and-code

How much of the $200 was the treadmill?

$140

Nice. Sounds cheap.

I love the irony--a homemade standing desk/treadmill, with an Apple Magic Mouse and Bluetooth keyboard...

Fantastic setup!

Here's my standup desk (no treadmill). Total cost was $125 for 2 extending sawhorses from Amazon and a heavy door from Home Depot.

http://icecreamforeveryone.com/2009/03/12/moving-to-a-standi...

from a comment on your blog post:

is treadmill programmable? You could increase the speed while your program is being compiled.

ha i like that! or connect other feedback from your programming/computer usage to your treadmill. e.g., if you're slacking off by reading HN too much, it will increase your treadmill speed until you get back to hacking

"Ruby on Rails application could not be started" "Disc quota exceeded"

I've been using the steelcase airtouch adjustable desk for about 3 months and I can tell you that it has made a huge impact on my workday. This desk has improved my productivity significantly because I'm no longer bothered my my back or by the low desk/high chair combo I was confined to.

It's not just the standing that helps-it's the ability to switch back and forth easily. Before this desk, I could feel my back start to tighten up after about 3/4 of my work day. Now when I feel a twinge of a backache, I switch to a standing position and things feel much better. Another underrated benefit of the desk is the ability to change its height while I'm sitting. In the cases when I either lean lower and sit straighter than usual, this desk allows me to move the monitor to eye level without much effort, thus preventing neck aches.

One problem with the steelcase, however, is that it doesn't go high enough. I have a colleague that is 6'2" and he finds that the standing height of the desk is too low for his tastes. I'm shorter than he is, so this isn't as big of a problem for me. Now if only I could afford to buy one of these for home.....

edited: clarity

We looked at these for the office (we have Steelcase Leap chairs and love them) but they're $1400 desks. Yikes!

So? A $2500 computer will be obsolete in a few years. A $1400 desk will (hopefully) last at least a decade.

Here in Denmark motorized desks are the norm rather than the exception. I am always surprised when others speak of them as a curiosity.

I tend to stand for about 25-50% of my time working. It really relieves the back to get up and shift around for a bit. Helps to burn a little calories too, during what would otherwise be sedentary office time. I also seem to work more focused when standing up. Finally, it is a lot easier to do pair work with a colleague while standing - no jostling chairs around for position.

A sit/stand desk is a condition of employment for me, nothing less.

They are the norm in all kinds of office work in Denmark, or among hackers/the type of people who would read HN?

Very cool if they are widespread in all kinds of workplaces. Makes me a little jealous.

I see them everywhere, from banks to car dealerships.

I think it has to do with the law requirement that every employee should be able to adjust his/her workplace to be ergonomical. In practice, the only reasonable way to do this is to give everyone height-adjustable desks and chairs. I'd love to see some monitor arms tho.

Dang laws for the benefit of human health and quality of life. Don't they mandating such things cuts into the holy bottom lines?

I have been using such desk for the past 5 years and will never go back (maybe like switching to Dvorak + Typematrix). Anyway, in Europe, you can buy just the electrical part and mount your own desk on it.

I bought my one here: http://www.bueromoebel-werksverkauf.de/inwerk_bm/sofort_lief...

You can find it through other dealers (this one is in fact a drop ship company specialized in office stuff). It is cheap but the start/stop of the motor is a bit rough, better not to have a full cup of coffee on your desk at the same time. I had one in Denmark with a very soft stort/stop but it was way more expensive (1500Eur+).

I got an artist's stool. Instead of adjusting the desk height, I merely hop on and off the chair as necessary.

Ha! Brilliant. Is the stool comfy?

I've noticed a coworker of mine with a similar setup, but with more of a tall chair than a stool.

I think it's comfy. Sometimes I wish I had gotten a model with armrests, but it's already better than the average office chair just cause I can shift my legs around more.

Yeah. I think that a high desk plus a comfortable stool with arm rests would be perfect, and also cheap. If you really wanted to go crazy, you could probably hack apart an office chair to attach the top to a high stool base.

I think I like this so much because adjusting a whole desk full of stuff, without lots of physical strain and/or jerking around your monitors and such, requires a lot more engineering than a simple desk. Whereas humans are already built to change positions and postures. So which one of these things should do the adjusting?

Thanks for improving this discussion for me. :)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The desk stays high and you hop on and off. Anyone has tried this?

What stool did you buy? I've been wanting to do that but can't find a nice one.

this is what I got: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40059300

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MS719M/ref=oss_product

I bought it "blind" and lucked out; the assembly was simple and it's worked reliably so far(just a month or so now).

I made an adjustable height desk recently, using the frame of a GeekDesk and a salvaged door:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psmith/4491882894/in/set-721576...

The door is from a Habitat for Humanity ReStore. It was ~$25. I sanded, stained, and sealed it, and mounted it to the desk frame.

The frame was $550 so not the cheapest solution but I love the extra space, flexibility, and plan to have it a while.

A co-worker built his using the GeekDesk frame and a butcher-block table top that he scavenged from somewhere. Quite nice.

Interesting -- I considered looking for salvaged butcher-block but worried it'd be too heavy for the motor to lift. (The docs say the motor is rated for 80 kg max.) Has he had any issues with raising the top? I'd worry about burning out the motor.

It's a 1" thick table top, not the thicker butcher block you often see used in kitchens.

I'd like to get one, but at $750, it is way too expensive!

Preventing a bad back (and numerous other health benefits) seem to be worth at least that amount.

The desk only kind of addresses the main problem though: being too stationary. That problem can be solved entirely, and for free.

My reaction too. What's the cheapest, non-sucky option anybody has used?

I used an ikea adjustable desk. However, I really needed to keep your desk clean, because it was a manual adjustment. It became too much of a bother, but I am considering readjusting it as a standup desk again now that I'm working at home again.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60111123

I think this IKEA desk is more news worthy since it's only $150. I still miss the JERKER model though (it's almost identical to the FREDRIK, but it had more desk depth)

Why do you write Ikea product names in all-caps?

copied & pasted from the website

But if the JERKER desk doesn't exist anymore, how did you copy+paste it from the website? ;)

How can you not capitalize a name like JERKER?

my thoughts exactly... it's probably why they killed the JERKER and replaced it with a Federic. Whenever I tell my friends about my favorite desk, I always get weird looks until I show them the instruction booklet for it.

Just use the Swedish pronunciation.

Which is?

They pronounce it somewhat similar to like an English person would pronounce `Yerker'.

I can vouch for this desk, and it's nothing short of wonderful. I've been using it for a year as a standing desk, supporting the load of a 24" iMac, a second monitor, and a stereo receiver. The trick to avoiding back pain is to make sure the desk is at elbow height. It feels like it should be lower, but anything short of elbow height will cause serious pain. Picture of it in use: http://cl.ly/beQ

I presume you put your monitors on a separate shelf to keep them at eye level. That is how I set it up, anyway.

How does the adjusting work on this desk? Can you do it while your keyboard/monitor is on the desk surface or do you need to take everything off? Are their tools required or just something like latches?

You need to take everything off and use an allen key; it also requires two people unless you come up with a clever way to go about it.

Could the allen head screw could be replaced with a simple pin for locking the height? If so, then a bit of clever counterweight arrangement would take care of neutralizing the weight of whatever is on the desk, so you just have to push and pull it up and down to adjust the height. Does this seem unfeasible?

Work from home using a laptop. Work at a desk when you want to sit, and at a bar counter when you want to stand.

I find laptops to have inherently bad ergonomics. If the keyboard is low enough for my arms, the screen is too low, and vice versa.

Also, unless you have extremely narrow shoulders (read: you are a woman < 5'4"), laptop keyboards force you to bend your wrists unnaturally.

I work standing with my laptop on top of a chrome wire shelf:

http://www.theshelvingstore.com/Chrome_Wire_Shelving_s/34.ht...

They are available in a bunch of depths and heights and are easy to adjust. You probably won't be moving them up and down multiple times during the day, but can configure it to a comfortable height. They run about $100.

Kneel at a low desk on something soft? Just an idea.

I tried this for a while. No matter how soft whatever you are kneeling on is the pressure is only bearable for 30 minute periods. It would work as part of a system in combination with standing and sitting though. Another thing that might work would be a kneeling chair that lets you support part of your bodyweight somewhere besides your knees.

How about two desks, monitors, and a wireless keyboard/mouse? Just today I was thinking of setting this up for my office.

That's what I was thinking - a second thin system on the shelf with VNC.

Ikea makes one (or at least did a few years back). I bought 3 of them along with tall Ikea chairs. Total cost for chair and desk ~$100. Fantastic desk at the right price.

My solution: IKEA desk with adjustable legs. I think it's the GALANT. Extend legs all the way out, and put it up on concrete blocks. Add stool.

It would be pretty simple (and much cheaper) to build one.

(This is hacker news, no?)

I had spent thousands of dollars on treatment, and spent the greater part of 12 years in pain before I spent $1300 on a sit-stand desk. I have had virtually no back trouble in the last few years, which correlates to the time I have had a sit-stand solution.

If you think the cost of prevention is expensive, wait for the cost of the cure.

I highly recommend workrite desks...

  http://www.workriteergo.com/products/sierra.asp

Have you tried both the hand-crank and electric motor models? Is it worth paying extra for electric, in your opinion?

Update; Nevermind, I see that only the electric desk goes up to 48" in heigh. All the others seem to be limited to 34".

http://pic.rossradford.com/SetUp01.jpg

The shelf and wall mounted display work for me, I can't go back. Originally I set this up to counter the constant hunched posture I get at work. For anyone who tries this:

- You will need to adjust the height of your keyboard at least once.

- Get a foot rest, I plan to build one into the wall.

- Opposite that wall is a couch. With some nice speakers you can have a decent home theater going. My 24" Westinghouse has a great one touch brightness adjustment. It might seem small, but native 1920x1200 resolution makes even blueray movies look good.

Here's an old post from the Make blog on how to build a stand-up desk on the cheap:

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/06/diy_standup_desk.ht...

...and Lifehacker had a more recent article on turning a file cabinet into a stand-up desk:

http://lifehacker.com/5503957/the-file-cabinet-standing-desk

I have been looking into drafting tables for this very purpose - used ones can often be found in the local buy & sell for quite cheap. Being adjustable by design, they look ideal (not sure about weight capacity though). Anyone have any experience using one of these as a computer desk?

I have a similar looking one to the geekdesk model, but it was from a local company at a cheaper price.

Had to add some improvised shock absorbers and place it against the wall because my monitor would otherwise shake when typing...

Did investigate several other options after that, up to 1500 euros and they all shake (the expensive one even more so).

Does the geekdesk model also shake?

That said, with my shock absorbers (just two pieces of memory foam), and sliders under the desk to move it against the wall, it works just fine and a great investment for general health.

Also have a mini stepper to do an hour of stepping in the early morning, whilst I read my email and check my RSS reader.

I may upgrade to a treadmill later, see http://officewalkers.ning.com for inspiration

It sounds like you need to train yourself to strike the keys with less force... That in and of itself is better for your body, too.

I don't strike the keys with much force at all (I use the tiny apple keyboard).

It's because of my arms (and wrists) resting on the desk and transferring that force to the desk.

The threadmill could be used to generate the electricity for your PC. Choose a model like hamsters have, a human-size one: http://www.impactlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hamster-...

A lot of comments miss the point that the table should allow you to stand OR sit - standing all day is probably as hard on the back and legs as sitting. That rules out most of the DIY options. I also wouldn't trade away a properly crafted desk plate with a nice finish, bezel, body contour etc.

Really, these desks aren't that expensive considering what people are ready to spend on other gear and gadgets with a life span of one-two years. (I would personally trade in my Aeron for a motordesk if forced to choose).

I'm a huge fan of the Biomorph desks (http://biomorph.com), particularly the Personal desk in maple. I've got 4-5 in various places I work.

They're expensive ($2K), but I keep a standing Google search for them and buy them used ($400-600). Very well made and quite worth it.

You can crank 'em up and down but that's pretty tedious. Best to just leave 'em all the way up.

I bought a used Multi some time ago. It's awesome, the build quality is superb.

I love this concept - not everyone realizes that the original design idea behind the cubicle was exactly this kind of feature: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Office

We lost the idea along the way, but I am glad we're getting back to it.

"Drafting table? / But that was in another country; / And besides, the bench is dead." (apologies to Will.S.)

Large wooden drafting tables, and tall four-legged drafting stools (with foot-rest cross-bars, topped by a square seat sloping slightly forwards), used to fill many of the classrooms in the engineering school I knew many moons ago.

Alas, it mostly got 'updated' to standard tables and plastic chairs. But those unpadded high seats still strike me as healthier than hunching in a chair.

An old furniture store might have some around - a cheap alternative to expensive desks.

That article got me to Googling for lecterns and podiums. Wow, some of those are very, very expensive. And the ones that are more stand-like than furniture don't look like they'd stay upright if a cat jumped on them (as you know a cat will!).

This is the cheapest I found locally -- just $15! -- but it's not local enough for me to get there economically efficiently. If you're in the NY/NJ area, though ...

http://cnj.craigslist.org/fuo/1700842957.html

I have one of these, I bought it because I was having back issues. I have the mini version that I used with my own desk top. I alternate back and forth during the day standing and sitting, usually a few hours at a time either way. It took a little getting used to, but it has definitely helped my back. An added bonus that isn't immediately apparent is that you can easily adjust the desk height when you are seated, which I find helps my back quite a lot.

Buy a second monitor $300 Buy a second keyboard $15 Buy a 4-way USB $15 then add a little stand to the existing table, $50.

I have the geekdesk or something that looks exactly like it. I love it. I sit in the mornings and after lunch switch to standing mode. Occasionally if I have to really focus or type a lot I will switch back to sitting mode, but it definitely helps to get me move around more / feel healthier.

I feel like making somersaults in front of my desk but I usually just end up in unusual sitting positions e.g. with my legs on the wall or one knee in my face as right now. But I don't think I could ever stand standing. That makes me tired and wanting to lie down just thinking about it.

I just have 2 desks at work and two monitors. Works pretty well for me.

If you don't want to buy two monitors (hint I didn't) then you could always make a desk with a hand crank. That wouldn't cost too much, it seems like a motor and controls is the expensive part of that desk.

Question for those with standing/adjustable desks: How long does it take to get used to standing for long periods of time?

Maybe it's all the sitting I do, and maybe I've atrophied a few muscles, but I feel like I'd get tired pretty quickly..

I just stick my laptop on top of a filing cabinet at work that's sitting right in front of a window. It could be a little taller but it's close to the right height and I get an upgraded view

An inner-tube accident as a teenager left Mr. McNutt with a bad back.

I wish they had elaborated a little more about this tantalizing nugget. Inner-tube rafting, blowout on a bike,... ?

These stories always make me think it's fabricated PR. Sit/stand tables existed before the geekdesk, but a story like this is of course good marketing.

I don't know, he seems like a stand-up guy to me...

Is this newsworthy? Where I work, all desks are motorized. Some even store up to three different heights, for easy access without fiddling to get the right height.

Oh yeah? Where I work, we have cotton candy and ferris wheels instead of email.

(Yes, it's news to some of us.)

That's surprising, to me at least. Here in Norway, desks like this are fairly ordinary. I've had one for a few years, and I've got no complaints. I'll be honest, though-- I probably only have it in the standing position once every month or two.

Ikea has motorized desks (sorry about the Swedish):

http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/90088946

About €450 (for the stand only).

Unfortunately they don't supply this to all countries where they operate.

I bought this in Germany two years ago and put my own surface on it. I like the flexibility of this setup, and the stand comes with a 10-year warranty.

Where do you work (city and industry if you can't share employer)?

Despite reading more about motor-adjustable desks the last few years, I've not yet seen one in a workplace.

I know the Fog Creek office has them. http://picasaweb.google.com/spolsky/FogCreekSNewOffice#

I work here: http://mecel.se/

I'd say that most Swedish companies have them. Ergonomics is big here.

Can anyone who uses an adjustable height desk comment on the impact it has (if any) on their productivity?

For some reason, it sounds hard to procrastinate standing up :)

Wouldn't it be great to have a classical church pulpit to rest your laptop on, then have your Holy Code propagate to the masses?

Maybe at 0800-RENT-A-CHURCH ;-)

I've done that...a lot of churches are getting WiFi, and even though the intent is to cover the church school or office, you can often find some sweet spots in the sanctuary.

Does anyone know the rated spec on these for max weight? That is, what is the motor capable of lifting without damaging the desk?

I emailed the company and got the following reply: The official (i.e. conservative) maximum recommended regular lifting weight for the frames is 176 pounds

Cool. I've seen and used stuff like this at peer's company in Stockholm, in 2000, just before the dotcom crisis.

Both have horizontal bars underneath. I prefer my knees and shins nonbashed when I have the choice, thanks.

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