FreeDOS 1.2 RC1 | Hacker News Reader

FreeDOS 1.2 RC1

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85 pointscheiVia043 comments

I'm puzzled. I'd like to know why OEMs worldwide are shipping hundreds of thousands of computers with FreeDOS bundled, where any Linux distro would probably be better suited for the casual user. Are they afraid to have to handle Linux support for their PC's?

Mind you, I like FreeDOS. I'm in no way bashing it. It's a great project! But we all know FreeDOS is almost certainly going to be wiped out as soon as these computers are turned on. Wouldn't it be better if users found Ubuntu or Linux Mint instead? This would be a great tool for Linux adoption.

Just a thought.

One reason could be to avoid angry calls from Microsoft. If customers know that they can get a cheaper, functional PC, by choosing one without Windows, Microsoft may react to the potential lose of licenses sold.

Choice FreeDOS allows the OEMs to test that the computers are working, but Microsoft doesn't view a DOS clone at a threat to Windows.

I have no idea if this is the real reason, but it seems plausible.

I think thats plausible, but actually I think its to minimize support.

They know that a PC sold with DOS is not going to be used, the buyer is going to install their own OS, therefore no support.

The danger of including Linux is then grandma is going to call about why can't she login to her church website, why doesn't email work, x 1000 other things.

I seriously doubt that, given that computers sold with FreeDOS (generally in the third world) are sold with the implicit understanding that the end user will install a pirated version of Windows.

Or you know, Linux, BSD, or a legitimately licensed version of Windows via another means like MSDN or Dreamspark? Plenty of good legitimate and illegitimate reasons to do this, not just piracy.

The actual reason is piracy.

It's really not. Cynicism not needed.

I have to agree with smitherfield. In Latin America (where I lived most of my life) it's pretty common to sell computers with either pirated Windows or something like FreeDOS. Only reputable brands (like Dell, HP and so on) care to ship official Windows installs, and even retail stores (like, say, Best Buy in the US) will offer you different kinds of installations: Windows (at a much higher cost), some Linux variant with no support or a trial version of Windows that you can replace with your own pirated version.

Software piracy is rampant in developing nations, which is understandable. Who wants to pay half a month's salary for a copy of Windows?

Microsoft probably doesn't care about sales but market share.

At least for consumer grade computing, they want Windows out here so they can make a lower TOC argument to companies. After all future employees will already be familiar with Windows and perhaps MS Office, so there will not be as long a training period.

Because support for FreeDOS is easy. It does almost nothing, well.

If I bought a computer with Linux installed, I'd expect the WiFi, sound and graphics to all work. That could be some serious work (and in some cases, impossible).

Are they? Where does that number come from?

I suspect if they are, they aren't desktops but PC104 "embedded" systems, running applications from the dawn of time.

My laptop, my girlfriend's laptop and my previous laptop all came with FreeDOS installed. It's very common.

Which OEM was that?

I have laptops from Lenovo and Dell that shipped with FreeDOS. One of the Dell ones even came with a nice FreeDOS cd-rom and a paperback copy of the GPL.

Why are you having such a hard time with this?

I've never seen it advertised, never known anyone get one, and thought it contradicted Microsoft OEM agreements. And as someone said upthread, wouldn't it be more useful to ship with Linux?

I'm not "having a hard time", I'm just curious and applying the usual amount of mild skepticism to the internet.

Here in India I buy all my servers from Dell.We insist on FreeDOS because we have a standard OS setup inside the company: CentOS 7 for servers, Ubuntu 16.04 for dev workstations and Windows or macOS for laptops and for workstations for design. It's so much simpler to just test the delivered systems if they had FreeDOS installed and then burn whatever image we need on the machine.

I've definitely seen it on Lenovo, Dell and Acer, and I think I might have seen it on HP and Asus laptops as well, but I am not very sure and I cannot check right now.

Two possible reasons:

(1) Speed: FreeDOS installs faster than any Linux distro.

(2) Drivers: Not all manufacturers provides drivers for Linux.

Not all manufacturers provide drivers for FreeDOS either...

I bought a Dell Dimension N-Series in 2007 that came with FreeDOS. It is my understanding that Microsoft signed discount deals with PC makers that required them to sell all their computers with an operating system (no bare hardware) and this was a way to meet the requirement.

The Wikipedia article seems to have the same impression:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_n_Series

In theory (I have actually never checked it up), Windows 10 is free for OEMs to install. The rationale behind it is suposed to be that the real market of Win10 is the Windows Store (and the ads in various parts of the OS too).

Does anyone actually buy anything from the Windows Store? I'll admit, I haven't looked much lately, but the last time I looked, there wasn't much besides shovelware.

I think the only thing I've ever paid for from there was GameDev Tycoon, back before they got on Steam.

We (as in "us who know IT stuff") may not use it, but the rest may very well be using it. It's a concept very similar to the App Store and the Play Store (or Android Market), in that it's the place where the "common user" (however you define that) goes to get applications installed in their computer.

But yeah, we agree that for games Steam is a lot better, but the target audience clearly knows how to get that -- I get the feeling the Windows Store is aimed to the completely oblivious user.

Anecdotically, a friend once asked me if Windows 8 was better because it allowed you to run the latest version of office (back then it was Office 15, the first with the minimalist visual style)... I have the feeling that he's precisely the target of the Windows Store.

I believe that's only true for small-screen devices or "Windows 10 With Bing" (where the search engine is pre-chosen)

I wish they would make an official USB boot image.

Looks easy: http://freedos.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/USB

Those instructions says to use the “Odin” floppy disk image, which is a third-party project which was last updated in 2005.

Rufus, the recommended Ubuntu USB creator can build FreeDOS sticks too.

I thought Rufus was a Windows program you had run on Windows? I would really prefer an image file.

Very little if anything about booting DOS from usb has changed. U/EFI is about it and that usually rules out DOS.

But the FreeDOS project does not publish anything which can take the place of the Odin floppy image.

Not true. The FD 1.2 betas have been available as usb images for months [0].

[0] http://up.lod.bz/FDI

USB booting in general is best done more reliably than an official image will allow.

Also more simply & reliably than the freedos link outlines.

It's easier to get the soundcard to work on my netbook with Linux + DosBox than using FreeDOS.

Dos does NOTHING for sound cards, there are no dos drivers, every single program needs to talk to raw low level hardware to make a sound.

And for that reason, xyproto's post is trivially true, in the practical sense. Hardware today doesn't implement any compatibility mode that would be useful to original DOS-era programs. Dosbox provides that compatibility mode, acting as a translation layer for getting+putting audio samples, simulating FM synthesis, etc. No DOS game's gonna directly support AC97 or HD Audio codecs.

> there are no dos drivers

There were commonly configuration and settings programs that came with hardware. Expanding beyond audio hardware, mice, CD-ROMs, EMS, and others loaded TSRs that acted more directly like drivers.

Linux? Use DosEMU for high end dos games. It runs FreeDOS inside a VM with crazy speeds for Tomb Raider, Redneck Rampage and such.

Why sourceforge.net? Why SVN? It's 2016!

Sourceforge: https://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-acquisition-and-fut... https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4n3e1s/the_state_...

SVN: probably inertia and a large repo that would be work to convert.

Am I hearing a volunteer to migrate the project?

because it just works.

It's DOS. I bet the developers get a kick out of the retro feeling.

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