Radeon R9 M370X (MacBook Pro 2015) vs. Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro 2016) | Hacker News Reader

Radeon R9 M370X (MacBook Pro 2015) vs. Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro 2016)

gpuboss.com

43 pointsmangeletti44 comments

What I'm wondering is when will Apple finally update the OpenGL drivers, so we can take full advantage of the GPUs ?

Of course it's possible to do many things with workarounds, but for example compute shaders are introduced in OpenGL 4.3 IIRC, and Apple currently supports only OpenGL 4.1 with some 4.2 extensions, released in 2010 already :P

Any idea if Apple has any plans to update their OpenGL drivers to modern versions ? Or are they just gonna focus on the more iOS/mobile optimized Metal ?

Sucks anyway to do cross platform graphics development on a Mac laptop soon if they don't do something about this.

All signs point to "never" with regard to newer OpenGL versions, and there's no signs of them adopting Vulkan either.

For modern graphics you're stuck with Metal or MoltenVK: https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/

I'm a die-hard MacBook Pro fan, and despite the negative press around the new model's specs, I will somehow find a way to convince myself to buy one.

This comparison is the first good news I found. I just entered the GPU model from my Retina 2015 MacBook Pro and the highest GPU option from the 2016 line-up.

I think, for a notebook, this looks pretty good, and it uses about 1/3 the energy of its desktop counterpart (Radeon RX 460).

A few spec comparisons to the 2015 GPU:

    1. floating-point - 82% faster
    2. texture mapping - 82% faster
    3. texture mapping units - 60% more
    4. shading units - 60% more
    5. GPU memory - 100% more

Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro) vs Radeon RX 460 (desktop):

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460

That's not as bad as everyone has made it out to be, right? Or, is it that the 2015 was just terrible?

The R9 M370X was based on the Cape Verde architecture, released in 2012. http://videocardz.com/55641/radeon-r9-m370x-confirmed-to-uti...

I am a MacBook Pro fan as well and will upgrade my model next year. I think the new version is great and I like the new touch bar, but since Apple made some big changes I expect there will be some issues as well which should be fixed in the first revision. Apple often has issues these days when making major changes to their devices.

I bought my current 15" MacBook Pro early 2015 and it still performs most excellent, so I should be fine for another year.

P.S.: My 15" MBP only has an integrated GPU, which is fine for minor gaming like League of Legends or World of Warcraft.

One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new.

Why one year? It's almost two in and sounds like it will be 3 before replacement.

   One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course
   it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new.

Kinda because I can. Since I buy a laptop on behalf of my company (I am a freelancer) I pay about half price in reality. Company investments are deductible from tax and VAT is returned to me. By that time I can still sell my old laptop for a good price, in effect paying very little for a brand new MBP.

To cheer you up: The touchbar is actually kinda awesome if you can find someone with an ounce of creativity: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large

Also, I guess these specs seem plausible. But that website is seriously insulting my senses. And I really don't care about the number of shading units, at least not in winter.

That seems neat, but it's also unpractical. Looking at the touch bar is like looking at the keyboard. I like to keep my eyes focused on the screen.

I agree. With vim, running the current spec file for me is <LEADER> c. <LEADER> l for the last spec file ran. I don't even have to think about it.

the only wow factor Apple has added is to insert a i7 HQ CPU and a dGPU to a 15inch laptop while can still make it only 1.8kg and 10 hours battery. This is the only advantage over new surface book. But the price is just a little bit insane, but besides this and that touch bar, good device.

Well, the other advantage is that it can run Windows and OS X.

I suspect if OS X were available (legally and supported) for other laptop hardware the sales of MBPs would fall. Who would rather get a MBP over a Razer Blade Pro for example?

The Razer Blade Pro is 17.3in and 7.8lbs, so probably most people who aren't looking for a luggable workstation or high-end gaming rig.

The Razer Blade is fairly compelling, although it isn't cheap (over $2000 if you want the version with the high-res screen), and weighs (a bit) more than the 15" MBP wile only having a 14" screen.

If you care about graphics performance, the Nvidia 1060 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060#specs) in the Razer Blade will run circles around the Radeon Pro 460 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/-9223372036822812418#specs). A 512GB SSD 16GB ram Razer Blade is $2299. An equivalent rMBP (512GB SSD 16GB ram) with Radeon Pro 260 is $2799.

It all depends on your use case and requirements. If GPU is important to you, Windows will likely be a choice. Whereas if you need to do mac/i/tvOS development, then macOS is your only option.

The Nvidia mobile 1060 has a TDP of 75 watts. The Radeon 460 in the MacBook Pro is 35 watts. They're not in the same class.

They're in the same class in size and price, but not in power or performance.

I assume you want power and performance out of a laptop labeled "Pro" - correct?

Of course, but for a "do-everything" laptop that has a large beautiful screen, weighs 4lbs (my laptop spends a lot of time in my backpack walking around, every pound counts) and still has a quad-core CPU, while operating for over 10 hours on battery, I'm willing to make a handful of concessions.

It's a balancing act. The MacBook Pro is the best laptop for my needs at any price, I'm fortunate enough that I have the ability to afford the extortionate price, but I feel comfortable working a few days a year to pay for it.

It's a definite improvement, but quite disappointing if you want to use the GPU for pro use (e.g. video processing), given that there are other pro laptops out there now that include things like GTX 1060 and 1080 that are up to 5 times more performant.

It's a good upgrade over what was there previously, but it's disappointing relative to the rest of the market.

I understand Apple want to optimise for battery life and thinness, but it would have been nice if there'd been a choice (have this GPU and 10 hours battery life, or a 1080 and 5 hours battery life)... or dual GPU like before so you could have a 1080 or 1060 in there but normally use a low power integrated GPU.

The Razer Blade Pro (17", mechanical keyboard, desktop class graphics, 32GB on board, ...) is exactly what I actually want in a Macbook Pro. It's just a shame it doesn't run OS X.

What's the battery life like on those Pro laptops?

Ideally Apple would release an external graphics card that communicates via TB3 for docked pro use, and then use the discrete Radeon Pro 460 when on the road.

The battery life is under two hours when you're doing "that kind of work". Also, the GPU is severely throttled when the laptop is not plugged into the AC power.

Yes, and wouldn't it be good to let the pro buying the laptop make that choice?

You can make that choice. By not buying the MacBook Pro.

All these articles and comments that imply that Apple has put a gun to their head seem a bit overblown.

Hell, Apple is still selling the old model if you're really that upset about USB-C.

I am saying from the perspective of a Mac using developer, wouldn't it be nice if Apple offered them the choice of choosing low end GPU for better battery life or high end GPU with less battery life, which may (and for many is) more appropriate for their professional workload.

I called Apple (both personal and business divisions) and you can not buy the old model with dGPU any more unless you buy refurb. The only 2015 available is the base model with Intel integrated graphics.

Keep in mind that the max TDP is only 35W this generation (down from 50W in the M370X). Don't hold me to it, but I suspect battery life will be better than 2 hours.

I believe it's already possible to hook up and external card to a Pro. At least I've seen pictures of it on a gamers machine so don't know how viable it actually is

It's not officially supported and so probably isn't a good business investment.

The Razer Core is (I believe?) the first non-chinese/ebay/type-thing solution that is officially meant to work on laptops (other than Razer or whoever makes the eGPU dock).

However I read a thread today saying someone who has one of these couldn't get it to work with the new 13" MBP. Don't know if that means it won't be possible in the future though. It's also very expensive ($400?) to add on top of the GPU.

TB3 is the first protocol to officially support eGPU by Intel.

As long as Apple doesn't block it outright in the EFI firmware, it should support eGPUs by default. If not, then Apple's the blame.

I've been drooling over the new Razer lineup since they were announced. If the MacBook Pro had anywhere near these specs, they would be destroying the market. Love working in MacOS, but it's basically becoming cost prohibitive. My 2008 MacPro tower isn't going to last forever, and SOMETHING has to replace it. Ideally mobile.

The Blade Pro is priced at $3700, which puts it in another class incomparable to the MBP.

I believe the top spec MBP and top spec Blade Pro are similarly priced?

You can use a thunderbolt GPU enclosure; not sure how useful it is if Apple don't update their OpenGL drivers.

And here I am, just finding out the 15" has discrete graphics after buying the 13" which does not.

Regardless, to me 13" is a much better form factor. I had a 15" years ago and it seemed to have so much awkward empty space around where your wrists go.

You've get 14 days of return policy. Assuming you're talking about the new Touch Bar MBP, you've still got at least a week left.

It's a touch bar model which doesn't ship for 2-3 weeks, but thank you.

What I don't understand about Macbook Pros (as an owner of one) is that there isn't a model with a "Pro" level graphics card - so an AMD FirePro or Nvindia Quadro. The price bracket they are in has competitor laptops with them, and a lot of "pro" 3d graphics software only officially support them.

Serious question: what outside of legacy (i.e. almost all of it) Windows CAD software uses or benefits from FirePro cards and the like? I spoke with a dev of a CAD suite I actually use, one of the few that doesn't have a requirement to use one of these cards, and asked about this. The reply was preceded by a snort of disdain: "no we use any DirectX compatible GPU. Get a good gaming card, it's cheaper and better."

My impression, right or wrong, is that this segment of the graphics card market mostly serves expensive legacy (and almost entirely Windows) enterprise graphics packages that don't want to migrate to more modern graphics APIs and cards.

Are there people that do 3-D modeling or 4k video color grading on a laptop?

Dell is updating the XPS 15 with a NVIDIA 10 series card soon-ish (December?). Any one shopping for a decent dGPU on a light laptop should consider it.

Their current top-end XPS 15 already supports 32GB RAM, a 1TB NVMe, 4k touchscreen and has an NVIDIA GTX 960M. I was looking into it recently and it was on-sale for $2250. Maybe I should wait for the update. I like the idea of having a 15" screen with a smaller form factor (without the bevels).

I've just shared my spreadsheet comparing 2016 Laptops.

There's a column listing Gflops, which is relevant to this thread: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYA...

Does anyone know what the maximum possible (combined-)output resolution of the Radeon Pro 460 is? I'm having a hard time finding this info on AMD's website.

I'm most curious how the Radeon Pro 450 stacks up against the Intel Iris 550.

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