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Comment by rdtsc | Hacker News Reader

I think people always are easily obsessed and get attached to things they touch. Those things becomes extensions of themselves. I am that way about my smart phone, keyboard and headphones. I could replace the monitor tomorrow without thinking twice about it. Get a new hard drive, new router, even a new a new laptop because I don't touch but use an external keyboard.

But, as soon as my IBM Model M keyboard stopped working last month, it really bothered me (it was my fault for spilling coffee on it). So I got my backup Cherry MX Blue keyboard from Rosewill (also a nice mechanical keyboard for only $60 or so) and then proceeded to take apart my IBM keyboard in the evenings, to see how it works and fix it. I just got a new membrane for it and am doing what's called a "bolt mod" replace plastic rivets in it with bolts.

It is completely irrational spending all this time on it, but it am really attached to that particular keyboard.

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> It is completely irrational spending all this time on it, but it am really attached to that particular keyboard.

Nostalgia and/or emotional attachment aside, I think you can actually rationalize repairing it:

① Knowledge and skills. Repairing stuff increases your understanding of the things you use on a daily basis.

② Emotional reward. Successfully repairing something is simply satisfying.

③ Environmentalism. You manage to keep one more product functioning instead of consigning it to a landfill.

I am willing to bet that the time you sink into this project is mostly your down-time. If you weren't doing this, you might be watching Netflix, or playing a game, or reading a book — it is not lost time.

Just make sure to blog about it and you can file this time under "marketing". A touch of geekiness looks good on a résumé as long as it does not smell of elitism.

You are right. It was fun with a good sense of accomplishment at the end. On point 1, I was thinking quite a bit about how they used to make and how quality and assembly was different back then. Saw how some materials aged better than others. There was a thin rubber sheet between the keys and the membrane, I would expect after 30 years it would have been falling apart, but it was in great shape.

Not irrational at all. I've gone through countless newer keyboards, both insanely expensive mechanical gaming and business, yet none feels as "right" as the M. I got it new for a pittance in the 90s.

It may weigh almost as much as me, and look a little grubby, but it seems destined to remain in mint condition forever. If it had a few media keys it'd be perfect.

Keyboards and trackpoints are why I stuck with Thinkpads for years, and despite owning several always hated Macbook keyboards and touchpads. It's also why I was deeply offended when Lenovo replaced the 7 row keyboard with the compromised 6. When I spent a lot of time on iMacs I had a mechanical that was similar to the old extended keyboard (though not as reliable).

So no, as the main interface to a machine, having a good keyboard with adequate travel is hugely important, and not the least bit irrational.

Check out Unicomp keyboards: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

I am typing on one of those right now. I love mine, it is just like the model m, but it has a windows key and USB.

Does it come with a PS2->USB adapter so you can connect it via a PS2 port? Better input handling than USB :)

You can buy PS/2 versions of most models directly.

In cases where there is no PCB with PS/2, do you know if the adapter when connected to PS/2 has the exact same behavior or are is it a lesser/compatibility mode without the full benefits?

Anytime I sit at a machine where the USB chip happens to reset, I wish it would use PS/2. It's just not the same, and I'm not even using n-key-rollover.

> Better input handling than USB :)

A common misconception. The USB HID Keyboard Boot Protocol, aka the lowest-common-denominator mode, is very limited and is where this belief comes from. 6KRO + modifiers, limited refresh rate, etc.

This mode is only required for compatibility with certain BIOSes and pre-USB operating systems, though some "gaming" keyboards start in this mode and only switch when they've been twiddled by their driver because a subset of those certain BIOSes won't even boot properly with a keyboard that goes beyond the boot protocol connected.

When booted to a remotely modern OS that has a full featured HID Keyboard driver it can support NKRO, up to 1000Hz refresh rates, etc. and as far as I'm aware is able to match or beat PS/2 in all ways.

IBM used to make tenkeyless Model M's, wish Unicomp would offer the same since I'm very used to having the mouse closer to my hands. Then I could give a Model M a serious try, having used Cherry MXes for two decades, with the occasional one day excursion on a Sun or HP workstation keyboard.

I got the Unicomp with the trackstick mouse for quick mouse actions, then I reach over for the real mouse for longer uses of it, but I'm with you on wishing for a tenkeyless. Toshiba and Lenovo sold me on the mouse stick in the 90s, so it still feels natural for some things & my hand doesn't have to travel far, but nothing beats a real mouse.

I tried and failed to get comfortable with thinkpad trackpoints, so if it's anything like that, I'm afraid it will just sit there unused.

I'm right handed, but I mouse with my left for precisely this reason. Switch back to my right for gaming, but that's pretty rare these days.

you can get a 10-keyless Daskeyboard for $99

http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4C-ultimate/

I have tenkeyless cherry mx keyboard already, but I know there have been tenkeyless model M's in the past, which is what I was interested in.

I wish there was an ergonomic/split version

I've been eyeballing one of these for christmas: https://ergodox-ez.com/collections/keyboard-bundles/products...

I took the dive on an ergodox ez a couple of months ago. It took me nearly a month to get fully comfortable with it, but now typing on a regular keyboard just feels less than ideal. I just ordered a second one for my home computer.

Question - did you go with the default blank keys? And how do you like them? I'm trying to figure out which keys to get, but I have yet to see one in person.

Also, is it wireless?

I absolutely love my Ergodox!

I can't type on a horrible staggered keyboard anymore. Once you get used to it (about a week for me), it just feels so natural. I can never go back. Staggered keys are perverse, all the contortions necessary just to locate the keys with your fingers.

The only problem is that now I look like a total retard when trying to use anyone else's keyboard, which is a pretty regular occurrence unfortunately as I'm in IT.

Is it wireless, both between halves, and to the pc? Strangely I don't see anything about it on their site, but the pictures do not show any wires

No, it has wires both between halves and to the keyboard.

Wow, thank you for pointing this out, it looks fantastic. Christmas, indeed ...

Also check out the Ergodox Infinity from Massdrop at https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox , for the next 7 days at $200 but you'll have to do the assembly yourself.

How concerned about the soldering part should I be, if I have no DIY assembly experience? I've never used a soldering tool (gun?)

I'd say you should have a little practice on a board that you don't care about first, just get a protoboard and some resistors and have a go. Check youtube for basic soldering beginner videos, if only to see how long you should be heating the pads for. If you leave the soldering iron on the pads for more than, say, 7 seconds, you can lift the tracks off the board and that'll be a problem.

I'm pretty sure the surface-mount parts are already done for you on the Infinity Ergodox, switches are just about the easiest things to solder because they're quite large and the pins are far apart.

So yeah, shouldn't be too hard, and you'll have a sense of achievement when it's done! I love using a keyboard that I've assembled myself.

I regret getting rid of two Model M's several years ago because I didn't know about the bolt mod. It's not irrational to spend a lot of time maintaining a tool that helps you make money. I'll hold on to my current M forever, if it'll last.

It does cross into irrational territory though when you can make money with an equivalent tool.

It's a matter of ergonomics, as well as aesthetic taste. Some keyboards allow some keyboardists to make more money than other keyboards. If you can type faster and enjoy typing more, you can make more money, and you're more likely to stick with the profession. If your keyboard makes you hate every moment of your day because of the way it feels or because it injures your hands or wrists, then you will likely make less money.

Plus, our profession requires enough creativity to be compared (loosely) to art. An artist's tools need to feel a certain way to evoke the right state of mind for creative work.

A colleague snapped once at the recently delivered $5 keyboard attached to a really expensive workstation, and ripped out the cheap rattling keyboard with keys that twist and hooks into others, and smashed it into a pillar and then broke it in half.

Keys where flying over the office. Silence. And then applause.

I don't really understand why professional tools are allowed to be so absolutely horrible.

Destroying a keyboard is actually pretty hard - something like physically cracking a CD. I have accomplished it however. I am notorious for keyboard rage, and have hurt the heel of my right hand pretty badly on multiple occasions pounding mercilessly on keyboards.

I'll say one thing about my Unicomp keyboard. I have beat it savagely while enraged at some other screw-up in the computer or OS. I have sent keys flying, but always I could find them and snap them back in easily. It is physically as strong as a brick outhouse. After many years I have succeeded in wearing away some of the corners of the lettering on the E, S, and A keys, but they are still readable, and it is still as tight mechanically as new.

My keyboards nowadays are so expensive and difficult to replace that I wouldn't ever dream of breaking them on purpose.

My Ergodox took me countless hours to plan, more to assemble, then even more hours after that tweaking the firmware. It wasn't cheap either, but some of the best money I've ever spent regardless.

The horrible hp membrane keyboards at work, however, I would love to nuke from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Anyone willing to bold mod a Model M really owes it to him/herself to try a Model F.

On that subject, is the modelfkeyboards project legit? It looks cool but they're like six months behind already.

It’s definitely “legit”, in the sense that the creators/backers are members of online keyboard communities with good reputations. New hardware projects are always incredibly difficult, but I expect them to ship all their keyboards, possibly with some delay.

Cool. I really want to try one.

I don't even know what "irrational" means in this context.

If I enjoy using the keyboard and think it improves my performance, even if I am mistaken, how is that irrational? Happiness is not a measure of efficiency.

Don't you see, you always need to optimize yourself and everything around you using rational methods. If no rational methods are available, fall back to pseudorational methods. Easy.

I used the Cherry MX blues for quite a while, the 3000's series are exceptional value for money.

Sadly I had to switch to an Ergo 4000 at home and work due to postural issues and while it is a lovely keyboard and works well I miss the clicky-clack (even used https://github.com/skkeeper/linux-clicky for a while) :)

I fully understand what you mean about getting attached to technology though, I feel like that about my franken-desktop and my old(ish) Vostro laptop which I nurse a long, it's dented, battered and scratched but it's mine.

Agree. I'm looking to spend a surprisingly large amount of money on doubleshot PBT keycaps, because I'm frustrated by the lack of durability that any other type has. Can't finds sets for much below $50, for what amounts to some plastic.

I do think the "self extension" is a deep human builtin. And it's a very high bandwidth path in us. Ignoring it is mostly waste.

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