Swiss rail operator to sell bitcoins at its ticket machines | Hacker News Reader

Swiss rail operator to sell bitcoins at its ticket machines

reuters.com

139 pointshuhtenberg37 comments

It is not possible to buy/pay something at SBB with bitcoins and a customer needs to provide a mobile phone number/personal ID and is also limited to buy 5000 CHF per year due to anti money laundering rules.

Further information: http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-servi...

IMHO It's (just) a proof of concept of SBB to launch selling complex 3rd party products (think: platform services) using their ticket machines, not so much about Bitcoin.

Wouldn't there be easier things to sell then instead of bitcoin? Like iTunes credit or pre-paid phone codes? There has to be a reason beyond "look we're a generalized automated point of sale!" to choose bitcoin?

The SBB Ticket machines already sell pre-paid phone top-ups and Paysafecards (cards that can be used for payment in some online shops). So this is really just adding another vendor (SweePay) to this platform.

I suspect that selling iTunes credit or pre-paid phone codes requires adhering to all kinds of rules and agreements set by the corporations (Apple, phone corps). You can't simply build a box and slap iTunes logo on the outside - there's Trademarks involved. Then there's the government regulations and taxes to comply with.

Contrast that with bitcoin - no corporations to deal with, no government rules&regulations and paperwork - all you really need is an Internet connection and and simple digital signatures.

So no - I don't think iTunes or pre-paid phone codes are easier to sell than bitcoin.

Just some more info:

These machines are everywhere. Here is an image: http://www.toponline.ch/uploads/pics/sbb_automaten_neu2.jpg

Daily limit appears to be CHF 500.- which is around USD 500.-

SBB Info Page: http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/further-servi...

There are already a few Bitcoin ATMs that don't require any ID. https://www.bitcoinsuisse.ch/en/bitcoin-atm-network/

If not ID is required then why (and how do they enforce):

   "The maximum for unregistered clients is 5'000 CHF/EUR per day"

https://www.bitcoinsuisse.ch/en/explanation/#p1_4

If it's anywhere like in the US, then some of those operators who don't check for ID simply choose to not enforce the limits.

SBB/CFF/FFS is the government-owned national railway company, not some mysterious fly-by-night operation.

The Swiss railways is kind of used to non-fiat money already - they already (co-)print and maintain their own alternative: the reka cheques http://www.reka.ch/en/rekamoney/privatepersons/reka-checks/S...

There machines all already accept Swiss cash, euros, reka, and all modern electronic payment forms. Adding bitcoin exchange possibilities doesn't seem like such a stretch (it's a software-only change).

Huh? Reka is fiat. It's just that the fiat is Reka's, not that of the SNB. ;)

That will certainly make it easier for average folks to comply with ransom-ware demands.

Hopefully the payment processor institutes some form of check or delay into the process so that funds can be refunded in the event of fraud.

But you can't buy tickets (or anything else here) with BC? Buying them has never really been the issue, it's actually using them for something that's difficult.

This is a proof of concept to be sure. But I worry that the UX of the whole thing will get in the way of what's truly valuable about Bitcoin

Speaking of Bitcoin, looks like we are at the early stage of yet another bubble. Up +200% in the last year. Up +25% in the last 2 months.

Exchange rate aside, due to the greater abundance of bitcoins since the last bubble, the market cap is actually near all time highs.

Why?

Maybe let's start with selling USD at a reasonable commission, and then move on to the more advanced stuff.

I suspect that those machines lack a sufficiently advanced printer without a hardware upgrade.

I'm a Bitcoin fan boy but this sounds crazy.

Can you explain why it sounds crazy to you?

"To test Switzerland appetite for bitcoin"

It will more likely test the appetite for a poor user experience, high spreads and fees and be a conclusion that people don't have much appetite for cryptocurrency

I'd say it fits closely to Swiss values. On international level, bank secrecy is less a thing than it was in the past, but nationally, for Swiss citizens, nobody can know the details of one's bank account. Even the Swiss tax authorities. Also, you can buy and sell gold bars anonymously here (I did it once with 100g bar in my bank — no questions were asked and no papers needed).

So, why not Bitcoin.

yeah you are talking about the concept of bitcoin, I am talking about the concept of putting bitcoin in an antiquated vending machine for buying train tickets (has any one of those EVER impressed you?), one which has a 500 franc daily limit for buying bitcoin (5000 franc yearly limit), and using it to gauge people's interest in bitcoin on a national level

this is an "OOPS" almost as big as when your company spends two hours thinking of a hashtag that nobody will ever use.

> in an antiquated vending machine for buying train tickets (has any one of those EVER impressed you?)

I don't know if you've ever used one but the Swiss ticket machines are nowhere near antiquated. They are all touch screen devices that support contactless payements as well as all the usual payment options and then some (reka cheques?), and offer a (relatively) good UI in at least 4 different languages.

I'd add that the rest of their IT-enabled infrastructure is really good - apps that let you buy electronic tickets for all major mobile plaforms, RFID-enabled travel passes, and up-to-the minute train live tracking.

Compared to every other country I've travelled to they are really advanced. Granted, I've not been to Japan or Singapore, but I've otherwise travelled quite a lot.

Source: Am Swiss.

Thats good to know and I'm rooting for it, if history is any indicator it will just turn people off of bitcoin.

Most bitcoin vending machines have a variety of poor user experiences let alone the offered prices and limits. So far all I know about this one is the limit is low.

The machines are actually very high tech although the UI may not give that impression sometimes. They withstand extreme weather conditions, vandalism and have to secure a large amount of cash. They are built like tanks and anchored deep into the ground.

You are absolutely right, the amount of engineering that went into making them is impressive.

Regarding the UI - despite not looking "high-tech" (no animations at all -not even transitions- simple basic color scheme), I find it very good: I live in a remote village, and grandmas here have no problems using the ticket machine, even for unusual trips.

Of course they usually pay with coins, and that part takes ages ;)

This will be a dangerous egress point for scams attacking the elderly.

Right now scammers seem to be defaulting to annoying but fungible instruments like iTunes gift cards.

It's going to be a lot worse when they can direct grandma to go to the train station and turn her pension into Bitcoin

ransomware has been using bitcoin for the last 3 years

Can't believe we are going on almost 10 years with bitcoin and we are just now getting the public on board.

I'll take basically any USD-denominated bet that says Bitcoin will never be more than 5% of real-world transactions by volume in any country in the world.

Well considering that the blockchain can't support the transaction rate, I'd say you're taking a very safe bet there.

Can't support now doesn't mean it never will.

You make the typical mistake of looking at current problems and failing to envision solutions. Like people considered early 19th century automobiles ("This will never work! These machines are too noisy. They keep breaking. Roads are not smooth enough. There are no convenient gas stations.").

Humans are good at finding solutions to technical problems. It was already demonstrated a quad core CPU and 8Mbit/s of bandwidth are already sufficient to support scaling to at least 2000 tps. The problem is people don't agree how to allow this to happen (Lightning network, or block size increase, etc). But that too will eventually be resolved :)

The reason you will lose that bet is the "any country". In some less developed countries, inflation is out of control (govt sees money printing as the only solution) bitcoin as measured against their currency is rising. Daily. Couple that with the fact that those same places do ironically have high mobile phone usage, and it's only a matter of time until it's surpassed 5%.

Bet you $20k it won't happen in any country in the next 3 years. Does not apply if you artificially create them, has to be organic.

If Bitcoin was 5% of transaction volume it would be an amazing success. Even a 2% (assuming a country with a medium sized economy) would be massively game changing. I believe 2% transaction share is at least possible in the next tens years.

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