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Comment by avitzurel | Hacker News Reader

I can't get over the ESC key.

I need to experience it in order to make a final decision but even though it's "there" the position looks awkward.

In typical Apple fashion, there's a dongle for that.

Sarcasm aside, I wonder how well this will work if you use Boot Camp. Does the TouchBar revert to a normal function bar when OS isn't in control of it? Let's say I don't use VMware, and I want to boot into Linux or Windows, what happens to the TouchBar? Installing Linux or non-OS X operating system could be made more difficult without function keys. And yes, VIM and other modal editors are going to be less fun with the loss of tactile ESC.

I'm hoping the TouchBar will have some failsafe firmware mode that allows normal use of Func keys when OS doesn't have control over it.

The worst possible case in my mind is buying a small, tiny external keyboard (dongle) with just the Func keys if Boot Camp doesn't have a good solution.

Not sure why this is downvoted. It's one of the more serious technical concerns I've seen here.

Imagine you'd be able to buy a dongle with adhesive strip at the bottom in the shape of the touch bar. I am sure Shenzhen is already working on that.

You can use ctrl-[ instead of esc in vim.

On a german keyboard layout that's somewhere between hardly typeable (requires 3 keys) on Mac and impossible on other OSes (Ctrl+AltGr == AltGr == No Ctrl)

From what I've understood, on a German keyboard you type Control + Ü for ESC, instead of some three-key combo.

Just tested it on my Mac. It's Ctrl + Ä. So this works. However haven't tested yet of what windows/mingw does with this.

If anybody is interested: In Windows it works with Ctrl + Ü.

On my laptop, I already use Karabiner to make Caps Lock function as Control if used as a modifier key, and ESC if just tapped. Much easier to reach, works for both Emacs and Vim keybindings, only issue is that sometimes you hit ESC by accident if you start doing a chord but then decide against it. I personally think this is a better solution than a soft key for escape, but it may not be to everyone's taste.

I think they broke Karabiner support in the new macOS

Ah, that's disappointing. Another reason to be glad I haven't upgraded yet, I guess.

Also, wow, I'm glad I don't maintain any popular open source projects on GitHub: https://github.com/tekezo/Karabiner/issues/660. I can't believe the number of people who think "+1", "me too", and "donated" messages are at all helpful.

Also, looks like Karabiner Elements exists as a rewrite for Sierra. https://github.com/tekezo/Karabiner-Elements Haven't yet checked if it supports the same dual behavior, though.

It's being worked on, but the latest macOS also adds Caps Lock to Escape mapping as a builtin preference.

I'm an Emacs user though, so I like it being Control as a modifier/Escape if pressed alone. Just having Caps Lock function as escape wouldn't help.

The entire function row still exists including the Escape Key. The Touch Bar is customizable, and I would imagine we will see a "global ESC" application pretty quick.

Though oddly not properly aligned. It's about 2/3 of the way off the ~ key for some reason.

It's because they wanted to keep the same distance from the touchid on the right side. So in order to keep it nicely aligned they put it there (only assuming here).

Wouldn't that make it easier to hit with your finger? You'd have to stretch less.

Not if you have dozens of years of muscle memory for it being all the way to the top left. And since it's not a button you can't go by feel.

I would guess the margin on the left is still in the touch area for esc. If you've used the split keyboard on an iPad, they went as far as to include invisible key duplicates for the keys at the edges. The ones on the border are actually usable on either the left or right half.

Perhaps there is a business opportunity here, selling $9.99 USB-C Esc key dongles?

Clearly we need a USB-ESC standard.

An app to display it in vim would be enough. But add another $9.99 app for the delete (forward) key, after all those years (it's fn backspace now). An example of market creation by the removal of features.

Even my Samsung tablet has a default keyboard with both backspace and delete.

It needs to be a shiny, red, poundable button. Maybe something that makes a helluvva noise when you hit it.

The fact that the function keys aren't "customizable" is a feature, not a bug. The contextualization being touted as a selling point of the Touch Bar means that instead of relying on muscle memory to push a key that is always going to be in the same place, I will now have to look away from the screen to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

Do you frequently use applications which, on the fly, change what their keyboard shortcuts are? Like, copy is Cmd+C right now, but five minutes from now, in the same application, it will suddenly be Option-P instead? And Fn-Q ten minutes after that?

If not, why do you assume that an application won't consistently present its contextual touch buttons in the same locations each time it presents them? Because the only case in which you couldn't develop muscle memory for those buttons is one in which they are not in the same location each time the application presents them.

(and if your retort will be that you use different applications which will make different choices for their contextual buttons, well, they probably already used different keyboard shortcuts for application-specific tasks, and you developed muscle memory for those, so...)

Can't escape Apple's courage. ;)

You can remap the capslock key to escape. Or do what I do, have capslock be ctrl when combined with a non modifier key, and escape otherwise. I enter normal mode with my pinky.

Not sure for how many people, mine is already remapped to Ctrl key

Same here. Caps is CTRL. so in tmux CTRL+a is right next to each other.

b.t.w on Happy Hacking keyboard that button is CONTROL by default.

> Or do what I do, have capslock be ctrl when combined with a non modifier key

Re-read your comment, how do you do this at OS level? I can imagine doing this in Vim or Tmux, but OS level for any application?

The latest version 10.12.1 of mac os gives you this option. In modifier keys in keyboard preferences.

It's at the OS level. http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-...

Looks like you can program the touchbar to have an esc key.

Saw that, but the position is really weird. So weird that I am not sure muscle memory will adapt.

Since I use a real keyboard 85% of the time, the 15% I use on the mac is bound to be painful.

I keep watching it vanish, though, as other contextual menus overwrite it. Even the terminal "bar" has a contextual menu that will hide it.

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