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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

If the Apple computer ecosystem is becoming hostile, what does that make the Microsoft ecosystem? Apple isn't the one that tried to foist a tablet paradigm on desktop/laptop users. It's not the one whose flagship "PC" is a touchscreen convertible gimmick. In my view, the rMBP is the best "traditional PC" anybody makes. No touchscreen, no detachable or convertible gimmicks. Just a big screen (can I get a 15" surface book?), quad core processor, and the biggest battery anyone has shoved into a sub-5 lb laptop. Also an OS that hasn't changed more than superficially in a decade.

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> Apple isn't the one that tried to foist a tablet paradigm on desktop/laptop users

Which they walked back heavily after the overwhelmingly negative reception. A company that makes mistakes isn't a bad thing as long as they listen to their customers and are willing to admit when something isn't working. Would you rather no one ever try anything new?

> In my view, the rMBP is the best "traditional PC" anybody makes. No touchscreen...

Only for the next hour or so.

> It's not the one whose flagship "PC" is a touchscreen convertible gimmick.

If you don't want that one, the OEMs will happily sell you laptops that don't have those things. Dell and HP have actually gotten their act together and are making pretty good ones.. That's what makes it an "ecosystem", something Apple can't really claim. What if you want a 17" MacBook, or one with a gaming GPU? You're SOL.

HP doesn't have anything comparable to an rMBP. Their 15" laptops are either low-end, or x360 convertibles. Also they have tiny batteries (under 60 watt-hours in 15" models).

The XPS15 is the closest rMBP competitor, but even that has a smaller battery, and much worse battery life with high-DPI screen (only moderately worse battery life with 1080p screen).

The closest competitor to the rMBP is the T560. It's more than half a pound heavier with extended battery, has only a 1080p screen, and only a dual-core rather than quad-core processor.

I suggest you do some more research on PC equivalents. From Lenovo, the X1 Carbon is probably closest to an rMBP in terms of target market and price. It's also a pound lighter, has a user replaceable battery, matte screen, no glass parts, better keyboard, NVMe SSD interface, better wifi reception and a power cable that is robust and won't fray. Yes there are also many points in the MBPs favour. We have both macs and PCs in our household and I get tired of Apple fans that constantly claim the MBP is somehow unmatched in design and quality. It isn't. It makes many tradeoffs.

Apologies for the rant

Apple took so long getting Skylake rMBPs out I've looked at pretty much every competitor. They all compromise on key things like screen and battery life.

The X1 Carbon is a 14" laptop (Lenovo doesn't really make a flagship 15" laptop). The battery is not replaceable on the fly, which is a big problem because it's only 50 watt-hours (versus 75 on the 13" rMBP and 100 on the 15" rMBP). The screen is meh (PWM). The keyboard is good, though.

The Thinkpad's vaunted build quality is also mostly a pre-Lenovo thing. I have a T450s through work, and the backlight bleed is atrocious and the keyboard is warped and sticks up near the palm rest.

It's true that the MBP is unique in getting that capacity of battery into a small chassis, but the trade-off is that it's glued in and not user replaceable. The T460 does at least offer battery hotswap at the expense of thinness. The screen situation is unfortunately a lottery, which is also true of Apple machines, though perhaps to a lesser extent. My X1 Carbon Gen4 doesn't have a PWM screen or backlight bleed, I can't fault it.

The only thing the rMBP has going for it is a good display. Go do some research on Dell and HP's small business laptops. They blow the rMBP out of the water wrt to value. The Latitude 5 and 7 series by Dell in particular are fucking awesome.

What about it is awesome? I'm looking at an Inspiron 15 5000. With quad-core CPU, 8GB, and 256GB SSD, it's $1,750! That's $50 cheaper than the equivalent rMBP 15", with worse screen, smaller battery (84 watt-hours versus 100), and no Iris Pro. It's also substantially heavier with the 6-cell.

He's not talking about the crappy consumer-class Inspiron, he's talking about the business-class Latitude laptops. Apples are just cheap, consumer crap compared to those.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Could you point me to the right spot? I thought I better check it out since I just ordered a new MBP, and figured I have time to cancel.

Best 15" model I could find was the latitude 15 5000. 47 WHr batter. 4.6 lbs. Almost twice as thick.

I run Windows on my MBP and MP, and it's a better experience than running Windows anywhere else I've seen. Since I install Windows from MSDN there's no bloat. My son uses it on his MB for gaming, and it's perfectly fine.

It's been said the best Windows laptop is a Macbook and I totally agree with that.

And no escape key anymore.

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