Herman Miller Launches New Aeron Chair
hermanmiller.com
hermanmiller.com
The first chair was being pushed down the street by a guy who looked borderline homeless. He was about to go into the Bowling Green subway station. I said "Are you selling that chair", he said "How much would you offer?". I offered $10, he said "great, I didn't really want to carry this all the way home". I had a pang of regret and thought I had possibly walked into some type of high design sting operation. I asked "Do you own this chair?", he replied "My office was renovating and they were throwing it out." Good enough for me.
The second chair came a couple of weeks later. I was walking down Broadway by the bull, about 100 yards from the first place. One of the street vendors was sitting on an Aeron. I asked if he would sell me the chair, he said sure, $20. As I was inspecting it, a woman walked by and said "That's a nice chair, it's not a real Aeron like they have at my office, but it's a nice chair". The hydraulic cylinder was broken on this one, the chair only sat at the lowest position, when you would pick it up, the cylinder extended. I offered him $10 and he accepted. It was a genuine Aeron. I ordered a new cylinder for this chair and it is like new, the cylinder was around $90.
Both of these sales happened within my first 3 months of moving downtown. I have never seen another Aeron chair for sale on that street or any other. I looked.
I recently had trouble with stiff knees after a cross country drive. I saw a massage therapist who does structural integration/bodywork. A small amount of what he said was whooo-whooo, but he was very helpful with alignment, helping my flexibility and explaining how to use my body. He told me that when I sit down I should spread my cheeks and push myself firmly back into my chair. This has helped. Because of this, I think a wheeled chair might not be the best option. I want something firmly planted on the ground. The next time I setup an office for myself I intend to have a video chat with him, with a third party holding the iPad so he can help me with alignment and suggestions.
Another thing that I am interested in trying is the Esse Liberator [1], it looks comfortable and interesting to sit in alone. I'm just worried about my Mom coming over and saying "oh I like that chair where can I buy one", then I'd have to just give it as a gift.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Liberator-Sensual-Lounge-Espresso-Vel...
The upper-end model has an adjustable "lip" that can take pressure off the undersides of the thighs. Look around for one to try out. I think it might fit your needs.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/performance-wor...
* They're heavy as hell. Probably the Aeron is too, but I was shocked just how heavy the chair was when I was bringing it up stairs.
* They aren't very adjustable--kind of. The whole thing about the Embody is that it, in theory, adjusts to you by itself. The tradeoff is you have quite a few less axes of manual adjustment than you do on most ergo chairs. In particular, there's no lumbar support setting--instead it has a back curvature knob, but I've heard from people who couldn't find a good fit. Test it before buying.
* They don't use cushions.
I can't remember if the Aeron is like this too, but the Embody seat uses [several layers of] plastic webbing as a spring layer and then a lightly padded fabric sling on top that rolls under in the front (it's extendable by essentially unrolling it). The back is the articulated skeleton and a frame with lightly padded fabric over it.
It is quite comfortable, but you will notice the webbing causing the fabric to wear a little in its pattern after a few months, particularly in the seat. You don't feel it at all, though. Just keep in mind it's very much a firm support ergo chair, not a comfy exec chair.
That said, I love being able to swing my arms backwards to stretch my shoulders and chest and absolutely adore being able to lean back and arch my back to stretch with the chair following my back curve and arching with me. It even twists with you some.
When you do get it dialed in right, it's like sitting on a super-articulated back brace with a butt hammock and wheels.
Edit: also, be careful how you buy them. If you expect the Herman Miller warranty, make sure you get it somewhere authorized. Most of the really cheap offers aren't. Your employer might help. I went through my then-employer's furniture distributor as part of a larger shipment, so I got it for about 50% retail.
Gizmodo actually did a pretty nice review with pictures of the construction I mention: http://gizmodo.com/5071571/herman-miller-embody-review-the-b...
I bought it new and don't recall it being outrageously expensive, but I just checked on Amazon and it's over $900 which seems crazy. Pretty sure I paid a third of that at most, but it was many years ago and not in the US.
[1] http://www.thehumansolution.com/steelcase-think-chair.html
it's healthy to have your hips be at or below the level of your knees. If your knees are below your hips, long term you're going to have issues with your hamstrings and glutes, and by extension your back and stomach as well.
http://www.fix-knee-pain.com/basic-postural-problems-at-the-...
I mention it because I always thought I was "weird" in that I hate chairs that sit up high. I've always put mine at the lowest level possible with my knees higher than my hips. It just always felt right.
So when I started learning about this stuff I realized I was one of the lucky ones who had unknowingly listened to my body and avoided problems.
Same here. Neither the Aeron nor Mirra ever fit me right, no matter how I adjusted them. The Equa 2 fits me perfectly, however. I happened to find a high-back leather one for 75% off when a store was getting out of office furniture, and it's pure bliss.
Edit to add: the Herman Miller Equa 2 is a common chair for conference rooms, therefore it's easy to find them in shops that sell second-hand office furniture. You should be able to get an excellent-quality used one for around $100.
Funny how the 2 main use cases for the "Liberator" chair which you linked to are as a sex aid for those looking for adventurous positions and as a therapeutic chair for those who are injured and at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.
It's like having a minivan which does 0-60 in 2.5s
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a1...
Although it was a total slouch and did 0-60 in 5.0s, not 2.5s.
> The larger battery pack is also available on the Model X, making the world’s quickest SUV even faster. Model X P100D with Ludicrous mode accelerates to 60 mph in 2.9* seconds
[0]: https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-pr...
Now what is missing from the comments is a good summary of the differences. I read the comments to I don't have to think for myself and so I don't have to digest the article. I think of the comments as the mturk version of AI article summaries. GET ON IT PEOPLE! :)
- New mesh material which is apparently more supportive
- New back support mechanism which is a combination of the two previous options (which you could not put together) - both the lumbar and the pelvis supports
- Chair is angled 1.8 degrees further forward
- Tilt mechanism causes the chair to hug your body more, with less latency
- A new white-ish color option
Other than that it looks the same.
I'm in the middle of an assessment of both Aeron and Mirra 2, so yeah I've been in the details a bit too much this week...
...as a programmer I find it easy to make decisions based on facts, but when it's a decision based on how something feels, I lock up in panicked indecision and almost always make a choice I regret!
As for feel stuff I just try before I buy. Buy them on craigslist at market price, try them for several months, sell the one you don't like. Simple. Or try, sell, try sell, buy new.
Besides, the Mirra 2 is beautiful, while the Aeron is... debatable. This is mine: http://www.hermanmiller.com/content/dam/hermanmiller/page_as...
I would recommend the Mirra for anyone looking at Aeron. They're usually cheaper too. I got my Mirra on Amazon for around $600 which the Aeron was going for, I think at the time, around $900.
Agree that the lumbar support is more comfortable but PF does have some benefits. I like that they redesigned the arms which support the seat above the part which connects to the top of the gas cylinder. Hopefully this will have less tendency over time to wobble.
If you wear trousers with buttons on the rear pockets, avoid the Mirra. The holes in the back are perfect for catching them and ripping them off.
The build quality of these chairs is amazing when I consider the tens of thousands of hours I've been sitting in this thing.
Have a search for "Aeron seat foam insert" if you're outside the UK and need an alternative option.
What I don't love is longevity and cost of spares. The original lumbar support[1] was just a piece of plastic, consistently broke after 12-18 months, and cost £50+ to replace. After the 4th broke, an ugly bodge was the answer!
Arm rest pads also split regularly, though less frequently, but a pair cost less than the simple backrest!
Everything else seems to have lasted remarkably well.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Aeron-Chair-Lumbar-Herman-Miller/dp/B...
I loved the Aeron I used to have, until I hurt my shoulder swimming and discovered that its skeleton actually digs uncomfortably against the shoulder. That jarred me out of complacency about the chair's possible flaws, at least compared to others.
The most important part (indeed, all I care about): The wire mesh seat. No more sweatty butt!!!
I bought some imitations in Thailand for about USD $200, kid of meh but had the wire mesh seat so +++
If you are in the states and have the same feature needs as me, Costco sells a faux Aeron (vinyl "wire" mesh seat and back) for $100. Works for me, but my wife is super picky about the rest of the seat ergonomics, so she hates it.
The problem with Aerons is the mesh seat. Because you sit on mesh there is a hard plastic rim. The front of that rim press up into your leg on your thigh. It restricts circulations which can cause outright pain.
The severity depends on your body and how you fit in the chair exactly. But it's bad enough for enough people that I recommend people avoid Aeron; with the Steelcase Leap being my current chair of choice.
I also recommend Steelcase as a good alternative. I considered the Leap but eventually chose the Gesture, and am extremely satisfied.
i bought mine new in 2006. the mesh tore and was fixed under warranty around 2010. one of the back supports broke in 2015 but they wouldn't fix it for free so i just zip-tied it and it's fine. herman miller's warranty service ain't what it used to be.
the best move is probably to buy a lightly used one at half the price, mirra or aeron.
Expensive artwork and overpriced lounge furniture don't improve productivity or morale. Proper work-chairs and desks, on the other hand, pay for themselves quickly.
Highly recommended.
(I researched and sat in a whole bunch of chairs, including the Aeron, before choosing the Leap.)
> The Tech Bubble Didn’t Burst This Year. Just Wait (bloomberg.com)
Do others have this strong association with the first internet tech bubble and Aeron chairs? For me there is a strong visual link between the floundering tech companies of that era and the images of the seemingly ubiquitous Aeron chair in the offices being cleared.
Not to belittle the notion of good ergonomics — on the contrary, I love my Steelcase chair and hight adjustable desk — it's just that the brand seems tainted. I wonder if their market research took this into account and came up with a strategy for this association?
Only in the SV and startup echo-bubble. Which is some tens of thousands of people. In contrast, Herman Miller have sold million(s) of them all over the world (Wikipedia has the line "America's best-selling chair").
I'm in neither, but I guess this is just something that stuck to us in the software business in general.
Yeah, but you're the type of person who reads HN, so its informationally (is that a word?) close to both :-)
The connotation also spread a little to journalists and media covering the dot-com era, but still nothing that the average Joe would be aware of.
[2] http://www.mv-voice.com/morgue/2000/2000_05_05.haltek05.html
[3] http://www.bluefeathertech.com/technoid/surplusmemorial.html
Yes having to help wind down a company that went bust and looking out on a fancy designed office space devoid of people and a sea of empty Aeron chairs is an indelible image for me.
But along with Aeron chairs I also have visual link with weekly massages, razor scooters in the office, lots of parties, a keg in the kitchen and questionable business plan. Ha ha, this sounds familir : )
I mean, if you have experience or a good education, now is even better, but a lot of us got our start during the first dot com, and it really was glorious, while it lasted.
I am sure investors have different associations, but for a lot of us it was a very positive experience.
(It is also why I keep predicting another crash. The experience was so formative that I expect much more radical boom and bust cycles than have materialized in this industry since.)
Quote from Blink by Gladwell:
"In late 1993, as they prepared to launch the chair, Herman Miller
put together a series of focus groups around the country. They wanted
to get some ideas about pricing and marketing and make sure there was
general support for the concept. They started with panels of architects
and designers, and they were generally receptive. “They understood
how radical the chair was,” Dowell said. “Even if they didn’t see it
as a thing of beauty, they understood that it had to look the way it
did.” Then they presented the chair to groups of facility managers
and ergonomic experts—the kinds of people who would ultimately be
responsible for making the chair a commercial success. This time the
reception was downright chilly.
[...]
Before long, however, the chair started to attract the attention of
some of the very cutting-edge elements of the design community. It
won a design of the decade award from the Industrial Designers Society
of America. In California and New York, in the advertising world and in
Silicon Valley, it became a kind of cult object that matched the
stripped-down aesthetic of the new economy. It began to appear in
films and television commercials, and from there its profile built
and grew and blossomed. By the end of the 1990s, sales were growing
50 to 70 percent annually, and the people at Herman Miller suddenly
realized that what they had on their hands was the best-selling chair
in the history of the company."When it came time to get a "real" office chair for the home office I decided to go with the Steelcase Leap[1] and I have not regretted it. I had no idea a chair could fit me this well. Everything is adjustable and actually labeled - it's like they actually thought about how people use chairs.
The biggest problem with having a chair as good as the Leap to sit in 90% of the time is the other 10% of the time where I'm somewhere with a terrible generic office chair - I can feel it in my back and legs within a few hours.
Everyone is different but I really can't recommend enough at least trying out the leap.
I find mesh backed chairs to seem more comfortable to me in that regards since they have much more airflow against my back.
Hello, fellow warm-back sitter. I've generally had the same experience and bought a mesh-backed chair for myself years ago. I was even looking at mesh seating, though the chair I was eyeing apparently doesn't hold up long term.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/performance-wor...
Got rid of my Aeron because it was too hard and rigid.
For anyone wanting to try one out, go to your local Design Within Reach and you can have a demo.
Specifically, I think that the two, radical flaws, are not just due to my personal shape:
1. the lower back support is very hard; anything around the waist will push against the pelvis/lower back. It took time to get used to, even using cotton trousers, I can't imagine people wearing a belt ever feeling comfortable.
2. the upper top back is significantly concave; it pushes against the shoulders, leading to a severely bad posture, especially if you have a minimum of muscles in the back.
I think they reason why I originally chose it over the Aeron was that on a short try, the back support was adapting better; turned out to be a bad decision.
I don't complain about the materials (it looks like it will last for years), although I understand why some people would judge them as second class.
Awhile back I borrowed an Embody for the weekend from a dealer and noticed that after sitting in it for an hour or two my lower back would invariably feel like hell. I tried pretty much everything I could think of, and found two things that helped:
1. Stretching and doing other exercises to change my pelvic tilt from posterior to neutral or anterior.
2. Attaching zipties from the back support to the hole in the bottom middle of the "spine" of the chair. This reduces the pressure of the back support.
I ended up buying a Steelcase Leap v2 due to price, but I'm pretty sure that if I tried hard enough I could get the HM Embody to be the most comfortable chair for my body ergonomically. I think it's just unfortunate that Herman Miller seems to completely ignore this problem since it seems to affect a number of their customers. None of the Herman Miller reps or dealers I've talked to seem to really understand this issue.
[0]: http://www.hermanmiller.com/research/solution-essays/the-ben...
Linked is an article about how Herman Miller designed their posturefit system to try to push your hips forward. IIRC the Embody doesn't use the exact same system, but I think that they designed the Embody with similar goals. My theory is that if you have deeply engrained posterior pelvic tilt then the gentle nudging of the back support is completely ineffective at getting you to tilt your hips forward, and only digs into you and causes pain.
There is a single adjustment knob for the back, but it adjusts the thoracic and the lumbar part at the same time. So if you have a rounded upper back, you'll adjust the knob to make the backrest a more deeply curved S shape to prevent the upper backrest from poking your shoulder blades. But then the lower part of the S gets deeper as well and it starts digging into your lumbar/sacral region. It's not easy to notice -- after 15 minutes in the store, I was in love with the Embody; after 1 hour at home, it felt like my lower back was covered in bruises from the hard plastic.
For this reason, I do not recommend the Embody to people with incorrect posture, or to people who don't like hard chairs.
Other things worth noting are the poor armrests (they have no back movement, so you can't move your chair close to your desk without lowering them) and the fact that you can't really recline very far in this chair because the back tension rises pretty fast after a certain point. Well, you can recline if you adjust the back tension, but it's a continuous knob, so it'll take you ages to go back your regular setting.
I will say that when I was first assigned an Embody at work, I went through a period of comfy->uncomfy->comfy-again, so sometimes sticking it out works. Going through the setup guide (think it came with a DVD even) and putting some work into making it just right helped. Ultimately it became such an important part of my workstation ergos that I dropped a few hundred on one so I could work from home in the same chair as work, and haven't regretted it.
But I totally agree with you--you either fit the profile for it or you don't. I think it's incredibly important that you test the Embody before buying it. If it fits you it's going to be the best chair on the market, hands down, bar none. If it doesn't it's going to be a serious pain.
Regarding reclining, the tilt knob isn't really for active reclining, if I recall their setup guide correctly, more to set the right resistance so you float at an ergonomic 110 degrees while allowing wiggle room to fidget. At the very least, that's how I set mine, and it works pretty well. I feel kind of suspended in the chair that way.
The tilt limiter is set so I don't have much room at all beyond that--that lets me push backwards against the limiter and then arch my (and the chair's) back to stretch.
The arms are crappy. I can't argue there. They sit too far back, and there's too much play in the spread adjuster joint. The height adjustment on them is excellent--they drop well below my elbows so I can use the chair "without" armrests--but the rest of the adjustment is poor.
(To the parent poster, btw, I wear a pretty thick leather belt with mine fine--really does depend on how you're shaped).
About the reclining, yeah -- Herman Miller would probably say that the chair isn't meant for active reclining, but that's no defense. Sometimes I like to recline at more than 120° to relieve the pressure on my spine (for example, when I'm not typing but for example, watching a YouTube video). I prefer chairs that allow me to do that (e.g. Steelcase Think/Leap/Please, Humanscale Liberty). The fact that the absence of this feature was a design choice by Herman Miller doesn't really change my appraisal of the product.
Funny you should say that the armests sit too far back. I had the opposite problem: they were always bumping on the edge of my desk, so I had to sit further from my desk than I would have liked. And I'm not the only person who had this complaint. I guess everybody is different.
The Aeron I found extremely uncomfortable, I could never get settled in it. I don't know why, but it felt just wrong (I had the correct size and it was fully loaded with all the configuration options and posture fit). I loved the Leap and only got the Embody because I bought all new office equipment and after sitting in the Embody a while I fell in love with it. Only recently (finally) got rid of the Leap and Aeron.
I can't give any reasons other than it feels the most comfortable and I can easily sit in it longer without issues.
One of the thing that always amuses me about "best chair" recommendations is that it's an entirely personal choice.
I am 6' 2" and 200lbs. Understanding even more than that about the size of a person is critical to understanding their needs in a chair. No matter how adjustable a chair is, it's simply not going to be best for everyone.
At home, I own a size-C Aeron chair that I purchased in 2007. I love it and the only thing I've ever considered is upgrading to one with the highest-end back support rather than the standard lumbar cushion.
At work, I sit in a Steelcase Leap. It's certainly a fine chair and I have no real problems with it. I find it very comfortable and I'm able to sit for much of the day in this chair without any issues.
My gut tells me that I prefer my Aeron; that said, the more I think about it, the more I realize that I've never questioned that assumption. The one thing I know is that I do prefer the breathable material on the Aeron.
I doubt you'd be able to get an in home trial, though.
It seems odd that every decent mattress store will allow you an in-home trial--some as many as 4 months. Maybe because the return rate on chairs would be a lot higher?
I walked into a Design Within Reach store in my neighborhood thinking the "Within Reach" part had something to do with affordability.
It did not.
I'm amazed how often a chair that feels great in the store turns out to be a complete dud once you place it in your workspace and sit on it for 2 days.
In short, a chair is one of those things that it is well worth spending some money on. The nice thing about Aerons after so long on the market is how common they are on the used market now.
It seems like HM haven't managed to top the original Aeron, and all they did since is making new stuff that's cheaper to manufacture. I suspect this new Aeron is yet another attempt at reducing manufacturing costs (replacing metals with plastics etc) but we'll see. If it's really better than the original, I'll pick one when my 12-years warranty ends in couple of years.
I'd recommend buying an expensive ergonomic chair from Craigslist or an office furniture liquidation company. You can pick up a great chair at 1/3 the retail price. You should be able to find a Steelcase Leap V2 for $200-300. Then make sure you download the user manual off the web so you know how to configure it correctly.
I used to do the $100 chair every year or two thing too. Then I bought a Steelcase Leap (for considerably more than $100), and while it's only been a year or so, it looks and feels as good as when I bought it. I would have loved to have found one for $200-300, but even buying new it was well worth it.
It's just a crap shoot as to whether or not the fixed adjustments of the cheap chair will match the settings you would select on an adjustable chair, and if the materials are fine for your size and weight. If they do, hey you got a great deal on a decent chair specifically for you.
I'm a pretty light guy, and I think I've only owned two <$150 chairs since 2002.
> adjustable seat pan depth
The Mirra's "seat depth adjustment" looks like it isn't quite the same (looks like part of the front of the seat bends to provide that adjustment?).
Pretty much this. I picked up a used Steelcase chair (don't remember the model, but it was listed for $800 new when I checked) for $65 at an office furniture liquidation company and it's the best chair I've ever owned.
Buro Metro is highly recommended ergonomic chair in Australia. 10 years warranty. I think I paid $250 AUD which is less than $200 USD.
The $100 chair is much more comfortable. For one thing, the seat pan is padded cloth instead of mesh. Even my coworkers prefer it, so we outfitted the office with the $100 chairs, and nobody wants to sit on the uncomfortable $800 Aerons.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q5XTE8/ref=oh_aui_sear...
It's the Hyundai of chairs: 90% of what an Aeron is design-wise, but also more comfortable.
Not sure why it has four stars, it had 5 out of 5 back in 2012 when I first discovered it on Amazon, but then I think the listing got removed and then re-added, so all of the reviews went away -- to say nothing of the later explosion of fake reviewers at around 2014 or 2015 that completely destroyed the credibility of Amazon reviews.
So trust me, and take the $150 gamble. :)
I lost weight down to a BMI of 22 and still appreciate a mesh seat.
My Aeron is still one of my favorite purchases (and I paid full price for mine over a decade ago, I don't regret it).
"The tilt mechanism delivers an even more seamless experience of movement (and stasis)"
"from intense upright focus to relaxed contemplative recline"
"a health-positive, more comfortable sit."
For everyone who likes the basic Herman Miller shape but not the mesh, I recommend the older Herman Miller Equa and Equa 2 chairs:
https://www.google.com/search?q=herman+miller+equa+chair&sou...
These pre-date the Aeron chairs, and IMO are much more comfortable. The downsides are that they are slightly less adjustable in general (e.g., on my particular model, the armrests don't go up and down) and obviously don't offer the ventilation of the mesh (which I personally don't like anyway).
Arms aside, I'm not crazy about the chair. It's not really comfortable for anything besides sitting straight up at a desk. The Steelcase chairs I've had at work are more versatile, although I've broken one of those too.
So here's the thing about the arms on an Aeron chair: they're too low. If you use them for anything other than occasionally brushing against them - if you rest your arms on them while typing, for example - they'll negatively affect your posture. You might really be better off without them.
I was disappointed to see that (at first glance) there's no evidence this has been addressed in the new design. I'm sure some of this has to do with the user's height, but still, it would not be hard to make the elevation of those armrests a bit more adjustable.
Now that I'm on the road traveling while I work, other than air conditioning on hot days the biggest thing I miss from the US is my Herman Miller Mirra2. Skip the Aeron, get a Mirra2 or an Embody. Both are amazing.
Do you happen to be a featherweight also ? I would love to have a mesh chair, but one that works for my complexion.
I can get them refurbished for around 350€ for the standard and 500€ for the executive model plus shipping to Sweden from either the UK or Germany.
If anyone knows a better way of getting one in Europe / Sweden let me know!
Please comment if you've used a Knoll chair and can compare it to an Aeron or Leap.
$179 ErgoChair by Autonomous https://www.autonomous.ai/office-chair
For me - I've been sitting on a Humanscale Freedom for about a decade. The company replaced the gel seat once due to wear and tear - but otherwise it's been a great seat if you're okay using something that doesn't have a million knobs and levers to customize your sitting experience.
The best chair I've been on was one during an EA interview (Montreal studio). I still wonder which kind of chair it was.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/performance-wor...
You can go with a more industrial look, such as the Steelcase Gesture, but in reality most of what is done is just covered to look like there is less screws and such.
The difference is that Embody was made to deal with pressure points, but there are not as many screws as you might think.
I've been trying both chairs out, and found some of the Mirra 2's features a lot better than the Aeron (notably it's forward tilt and it's more adjustable arm rests), but hated the softness of the seat mesh which felt like I was sitting in a hammock and put pressure in unwanted areas, causing numbness.
That said I worked in an office that had about 200 of them, and chairs subject to heavier individuals had problems with the gas height adjuster failing. This was about 5 years ago so maybe they've sorted it out.