Ask HN: Why is it cheaper to buy a new laser printer than replace the cartridge? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Why is it cheaper to buy a new laser printer than replace the cartridge?

19 points3stripe28 comments

For laser printers (and ink jets as well), the cartridge you get with the new printer often has a much lower print capacity than a new (separately purchased) cartridge. For example, the printer will come with a cartridge that can print 500 pages, whereas a new one would print 2,000.

But otherwise, yes, the printer itself is a loss-leader, just like the razor industry.

If new printers included a full capacity cartridge, it would create a loop-hole where anybody could make money by buying new printers, discarding the printer and reselling just the cartridge from it.

So they sell the new printers with half-full / reduced capacity cartridges to prevent this situation.

Bottom line: don't buy a new printer when you run out of toner thinking you've "beaten the system". You probably haven't.

> If new printers included a full capacity cartridge, it would create a loop-hole where anybody could make money by buying new printers, discarding the printer and reselling just the cartridge from it.

If the printer included a full capacity cartridge, the price would certainly be higher.

I bet half-capacity cartridges are much more expensive to the business than full capacity ones.

You need to produce a separate batch with different logistics and less volume than ordinary cartridges. In some cases it will need even a different testing line.

At least, you save packaging because you don't need to put then in a fancy blister...

Different quantities aren't limited to those sold with the printer.

My Canon can take regular or XL cartridges - the only difference is the volume of ink inside.

>But otherwise, yes, the printer itself is a loss-leader, just like the razor industry.

razor mention:

This reference to the blue-white bar before the blades?

Maybe because the printer is sold as a loss-leader, assuming you will buy a certain number of ink cartridges. Furthermore they can make the printers very cheaply because:

1) the fancy printing logic is mostly in the printing driver you install on your computer

2) the fancy ink transfer hardware is all in the cartridge

Is there any printer that represents the opposite of that statement? I recently tried to find a cheap way to print stuff, but all I found were cheap printers with expensive ink, even the ones designed for businesses, those even more so.

Why is there no 'opensource' / 'ecofriendly' / ... printer that's expensive to buy, but the ink is cheap & easy to replace?

Cheap laser printers work fine for black and white.

There are several ink jets with ink reservoirs instead of expensive cartridges (Epson EcoTank is one I know off the top of my head).

I don't know why everyone has problems with their priting costs.

Got a Brother HL 2030 since 2006. Payed about 150€ back then. Printed everything with it, including all stuff I needed to get my degree (projects, script, thesis, etc) and all the private stuff I did. Only this year I replaced the cartridge and drum for about 30€. Now it prints like on the first day.

Best purchase ever.

The spiritual successor is the 2300 line. I'd pay the extra $20 to get duplex+wireless and get the HL-L2340DW.

If it had a scanner I would consider a switch, haha.

You can find a B&W laser printer/color scanner combo with duplex & wireless in the Brother 2500 series. Model 2560 IIRC.

I have a HL-2170W and miss the duplex the 3 times a year I use it. I was mostly letting people know that they more or less still make the same printer (at least, as far as I know the new ones have not become crap).

The HL-L2340DW comes with a starter toner cartridge that is good for 700 pages, so it is not a terrible way to have convenient printing for a decade.

The cost of many cheap printers are back-loaded, meaning you will pay for the printer many times over from incredibly overpriced ink. Printers often come with starter ink cartridges to tip you quicker into starting your ongoing payment to the printer company.

Buying a more expensive printer can often lower the cost per page before looking at after market ink.

I read an article that said inkjet ink is one of the most expensive liquids in the world.

How to get around it? Find a good color laser, or higher end inkjet that can get aftermarket high capacity cartridges or toner to make the cost a fraction of what it normally is. My current color laser gets me a set of 4 high yield toners for $80 instead of over $400. I don't print much, but when I do, a little bit of homework can go a long way.

The printer is the gateway into a recurring purchase so they are going to make them as cheap as possible. Same as SIM cards are free to get you onto a phone network.

A) Depends on how cheap you can get a new or re-manufactured cartridge...

B) How easy is it to install drivers for the new printer on your existing hardware? (which can be a big factor if some of your hardware is multiple OS generations old)

This should help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

And shouldn't it be illegal to price products like this?

Why? It's not misleading advertising, so what would be the basis for it being illegal?

Sustainability concerns?

It's too bad sustainability has nothing to do with legality.

The original comment suggested that this should be illegal, and the reply, as I interpreted it, asked on what grounds. I can see on reflection we're discussing different issues (i.e. I've taken the comment trail as a normative discussion, rather than a technical one).

Sustainability concerns seem like a valid ethical reason to create laws and attempt to minimise things like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12742974

My comment can be read two ways: It's too bad sustainability has nothing to do with legality, in the sense that it should be illegal to make products that are extremely wasteful.

And you hit the nail on the head in terms of what I was angling at :)

On a related note: http://qz.com/811525/sweden-gives-its-fixer-citizens-tax-bre... -> "Sweden offering tax breaks to citizens who repair, not replace, broken things"

Not that I think its a particularly good idea, but, you could make a law like that.

I suppose, the ban on disposable products in food service and shopping (styrofoam and plastic bags) already is.

I don't think it should be illegal to price things like this.

What should be illegal is only when deceptive practices are used. For example, they should be required to make it clear on the packaging when the new printer does not include a full-capacity cartridge.

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