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Comment by smcl | Hacker News Reader

I'm a huge fan of football (playing and watching) but I cannot stand any of the games after about FIFA 2000. This isn't a nostalgia thing, I was about 14 when I realised this. In pretty much all of the games I've played the players move so slowly and dribble the ball very clumsily - kick step-step-step, change direction, kick step-step-step ... - it's like how 10 year old kids play. Goalkeepers taking a goal kick (or kicking from hand) barely reach the halfway line - when even a hungover sunday league keeper in real life can do so. Shots on goal are a complete roll of the dice, there's no real skill to it that I can discern (unless you can beat a couple of defenders and get a 1-on-1). I could keep listing my frustrations, but I suspect I'm alone so I'll stop :)

I have no idea why professional footballers can stomach FIFA/PES and aren't infuriated by it.

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Pure realism isn't the goal, and additionally, it sounds like you just aren't very good :)

I get that realism isn't the goal (nice) but it's frustrating to me that the players felt slow like they're running through a peat bog and the keeper can't kick the ball :)

But you're right, I haven't spent more than an hour with any of the games since '99 (most recently FIFA '16 came with my PS4) so I'm definitely not very skilled at all!

What's the last FIFA you actually played? I mean none of the stuff you described has been in the game for at least 3 or 4 years.

FIFA 16 came with my PS4

The only way I can see someone observing what you describe in FIFA 16 is if you're playing it without having taken the time to learn the controls. Can keepers kick the ball into the other half? Certainly. Some can even throw the ball into the other half (Neuer). There are so many ways to dribble with the ball other than the static movements you described and it's extremely fluid (even more this year in FIFA 17 with the new FrostBite engine). The only part I can somewhat agree with is shots being somewhat random, but having an RNG (random number generator) element in a sports game is pretty much unavoidable. There is a skill element to shooting, but depending on the individual skill level of the player you're taking the shot with, the result of that shot will vary.

Maybe you'll feel like me when I watch some very old soccer games (Atari era) where the ball is almost entirely free. It makes things much more dynamic and vibrant. Probably 10x more tedious (I was too young to have such games at the time). But it seems closer in spirit to what I felt on the field.

I stopped playing video games in the early 2000s, games post PES 2003 had no more appeal to me, it was a bad blend to new tech and less fun. I missed the arcade sim of first PlayStation PES (and yes, official names didn't matter).

The article also talks about Football Manager(FM) which is a completely different thing. A lot of clubs use the scouting database from FM, and many managers play the game as well.

When you make heavy use of the "skill moves" - the game becomes much more dynamic. I could see your frustration that without these it's slightly a point and dribble in your direction fest, although I think the newer versions of the game have drastically improved upon this. And I have to respectfully disagree that shots are a roll of the dice - if you play some really skilled people (think top divisions in Ultimate Team), I've gotten crushed without the opponent even entering the 18.

What's the latest version you've tried? I've always enjoyed FIFA even knowing it's an arcade-y approximation of the real thing. These days though, players don't run "on rails" like they used to, and everything feels a lot less jarring. Same for PES (or better depending on your faction). I still play with a niggling feeling of "this isn't quite right" but enjoy it enough to play it anyway.

have you played the latest games? trying not to sound like a fanboy but they play great. the most fun you have, just like in 5 a-side, is just trying tricks out and mugging people off! like the article says, "The reaction to them among professionals suggests they are succeeding". I mean if it gets the thumbs up from professionals they must be doing something right, just sounds like you just simply don't enjoy the game.

Think you are completely correct up until about FIFA 2011, when the game got its groove back. From FIFA 2013 onwards the games have been phenomenal.

You mean like real soccer vs. the 10-0 wins without a single back pass of FIFA '99? Yeah, that's horrible.

Perhaps many of them are able to separate video games from reality to a higher degree than you.

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