Russia Today's UK bank accounts frozen, says editor
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
My blood boils when RT/Russia/Kremlin/et al. start using phrases like “Long live freedom of speech!”.
They have an autocratic country, with _practically_ one party system and no opposition. They live in a country where prominent people (journalists, politicians, businessman) who uncover 'too much information' - just 'disappear'. They blatantly go to other countries and advertise that _all_ that country's media have no second opinion and they will bring the truth to the table. [0] When some prominent news about Syria or Ukraine come up, RT either shows some opinion interviews with facts pulled out of their asses or they will not show anything like nothing happened. [1]
They just simply use liberal and tolerant west, like a bully is using some nerd to bring his lunch. But they will never let something like BBC inside their own territory (with their own studios, multi-million dollar ad budgets, etc.). Personally RT looks to me, just how I would imagine Goebbels would've looked like 75-80 years ago.
[0] google "russia today this is what happens when there is no seconds opinion" [1] google about ukraine RT and MH17
Could you provide more specific information on this? Even if you could simply give a link to something like a wikipedia list of prominent people that just 'disappeared', it would be helpful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
1995 27 February – Maxim Shabalin, politics editor of Nevskoe Vremya newspaper (St Petersburg).[62] and Felix Titov, the paper's photographer, disappeared on an assignment to Chechnya. Despite numerous expeditions, from 1995 to 1999, no trace was found of the two men's remains. Missing [J].
20 March 1996 Chaikova, correspondent for the Obshchaya gazeta (Moscow) weekly newspaper disappeared while on assignment. Her body was found buried in the Chechen village of Gekhi on 11 April, blindfolded and bearing signs of mistreatment. The cause of death was a gunshot wound to the back of the head. The identity of her executioners remains disputed. According to documents from Dudaev's archive, that came into hands of Russian special services in 2002, she was killed by people from so called "Department of state security of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria" (Russian: Департамент государственной безопасности ЧРИ).[152][153] At the time there were strong suspicions that Russian security services were involved.
So far we have a list of two, not very prominent, journalists, who disappeared twenty years ago while reporting on a war with well-documented atrocities on both sides. I don't believe this is what the GP had in mind, writing that "prominent people (journalists, politicians, businessman) who uncover 'too much information' - just 'disappear'".
As an unrelated aside, this happened during the good Russian administration -- dynamic, democratic, West-approved Yetsin, who was so popular in his own country, that Bill Clinton himself came to Russia to support his election campaign:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/18/opinion/mr-clinton-and-mr-...
President Clinton arrives in Russia today facing issues that will severely test his diplomatic mettle. Mr. Clinton's primary purpose is to join other world leaders in a weekend summit meeting on nuclear safety and security that seems primarily designed to burnish Boris Yeltsin's prestige as he campaigns for re-election as Russian President.
Chechnya was squirming with journalists through whole nineties.
Most likely killers were KGB remnants. KGB conceded the media battle over Chechnya in English speaking world very early. But what they didn't like was that these journalists were revealing Russians and Russian speakers what has really happened in Chechnya.
None of murdered journalists were critical of Chechens. Why would Chechens kill them?
Think.
Prominent journalists or opposition members are killed in broad daylight and/or in public. They may be 'blessed' with a jail sentence, or if they are very lucky and will "smell the assassins breath" - they will escape the country.
Oligarchs who were opposing Putin in 2000s are either dead, in jail or left the country (and left their businesses to the government).
Boris Nemtsov - was killed in the middle of Moscow, was well known opponent of current Russian political system, after his death practically all opposition is oppressed, because not any opponent wants to die anymore (knowing that there are not many prominent opposition leaders left in Russia).
If you criticize Putin or government too hard you will "magically" earn few criminal cases and it's highly likely you will be convicted (e.g. Alexei Nemtsov, M. Khodorkovsky). You could be in jail as long as they wish, because they "may find extra details" about your case just before you need to be released (Khodorkovsky's case).
If you "speak too much" they will make you "dissapear" from public eye, either by death, jail, making you leave the country or just making sure that you never appear publicly again.
http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/russian-olympic-doping-sc...
However, the sense in which this word is usually used in this context, is different. It usually denotes a forced disappearance, when a person is secretly abducted or imprisoned by a state or political organization or by a third party with the authorization, support, or acquiescence of a state or political organization, followed by a refusal to acknowledge the person's fate and whereabouts, with the intent of placing the victim outside the protection of the law.[1].
For instance, the following can be validly said about Pinochet's regime and government in Chile: "He shut down parliament, suffocated political life, banned trade unions, and made Chile his sultanate. His government disappeared 3,000 opponents, arrested 30,000 (torturing thousands of them) ... Pinochet's name will forever be linked to the Desaparecidos, the Caravan of Death, and the institutionalized torture that took place in the Villa Grimaldi complex.” — Thor Halvorssen, president of the Human Rights Foundation, National Review
I'll take doping scandal over institutionalized torture any time.
For me it boils down to russian mentality which didn't change much from past era - only there such a person would be thriving for so long.
As long as this will be contained within russia, i am more or less OK with it, who are we to tell them how to run their own place. I don't think elections there are rigged in any significant way for example. But once results of this will seep out to neighboring countries, in form of expansionism, ie towards europe and former soviet republics, we have a problem.
So, we have a problem.
Individual rights have to be protected because individuals are generally powerless.
Governments, on the other hand can reasonably duke it out, power versus power, and protect themselves.
If Russia (as a country) wants to spread destabilizing propaganda that might weaken another nation, I don't think it's the "right" guaranteed by free speech. If Russia, were a free nation though, then the views of RT would just be the views of a random newspaper, speaking words with no more privilege than mine or yours.
Your definition of what might 'weaken another nation' is your own and doesn't represent the views of everyone in the country. Just because something might deflate your nationalistic commie-hating boner or whatever doesn't mean it should be banned.
Elected representatives do get to take action against foreign state actors that they determine are 'weakening the nation'.
Well you described RT (or probably Russia/Kremlin) well.
They will come to Europe/US and say whatever they want and then when you say "hey Mr. RT/Russia/Kremlin/Putin, that's not true, please do not do this again", they will scream like bloody murder that you are restricting their freedom of speech.
I live in post-Soviet country, just before and during Ukraine conflict russian television (not RT) released "documentaries" which said that gulags have not happened, repressions have not happened, and after USSR collapsed, countries like mine were independent without any oppression.
That tv station got banned for a year if I remember correctly.
It's like Deutsche Welle would release documentaries in Poland/Israel/France/Check republic, that invasion/holocaust/concentration camps have not happened.
Your response that it's ok because "it's Russia" reminds me of a story that I heard. A man asks a doctor whether it's ok to pull the legs off a spider for amusement, and the doctor says it's not. The man asks why, since the spider isn't capable of feeling any pain. The doctor replies "I'm not concerned about what will happen to the spider. I'm concerned about what will happen to you."
-- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (mis-attributed to Voltaire)
I will speak in general of Russia's television networks (because in my country there are not only RT, but more), but they are blatantly using this term to spread to say whatever they want. But what if they say that oppression against occupied soviet countries didn't happen? [&][0]( original sources not in english). Their defence is of course 'freedom of speech'. But what if that 'freedom of speech' breaks laws (usually it's on the brink of the law)? What if their reporters are filming themselves near infamous rocket artillery launchers[1][2], launchers who are hitting civilians [3][4]?
I recommended googling to see 'two opinions' yourself and how they present themselves. Someone like RT will never say two different opinions and most importantly not even mention another opinion exists. How they will disgustingly disguise and create a "mist of lies" around some fact that they know they are wrong about it. E.g. clearly fake satellite pictures how russia managed to picture a fighter jet in the process of firing it's weapons into MH17 (that fighter jet is an infantry support jet, with 7km flight ceiling (or 5km loaded)) [5]
Russian information channels work very well, they just work with KGB and Goebbels strategies.
"Freedom of speech" is no more freedom of speech when it breaks laws or is blatant and utter photoshoped lie.
[&] It's the same that Deutche Welle would start showing documentaries that holocaust and concentration camps didn't happen, a huge insult to victim countries and people, not to say it would be break the law in many countries as well.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTR-Planeta
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KCzUCJzpig
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dZt60J2fNM
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLmk30tXuyk
[5] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836245/Report-slams...
That's what pretty much all major western media outlets do as well.
> Their defence is of course 'freedom of speech'. But what if that 'freedom of speech' breaks laws (usually it's on the brink of the law)?
Like what laws?
> What if their reporters are filming themselves near infamous rocket artillery launchers[1][2], launchers who are hitting civilians [3][4]?
Whats wrong with filming action? Seems like courage and dedication to me.
> But what if they say that oppression against occupied soviet countries didn't happen?
You don't realize how hilarious that is? You can find 100 equivalent western propaganda pieces for every one of RT's. I don't see people like you being against those media outlets.
> Someone like RT will never say two different opinions and most importantly not even mention another opinion exists.
Yes they will. They invite plenty of people for interviews that criticize Putin and Russia, and actually give them decently long time which Western media almost never do (like Noam Chomsky - youtube it).
> Russian information channels work very well, they just work with KGB and Goebbels strategies.
Not nearly as well as Western media channels. Russian propaganda is children's cartoons compared to Western propaganda.
> "Freedom of speech" is no more freedom of speech when it breaks laws or is blatant and utter photoshoped lie.
Funny how you only have a problem with this when its a particular party expressing views you happen to disagree with.
If it is the US government moving to constrain other powerful media establishments that could counter their voice, it does make you wonder what they are so worried about being released.
Are the emails really so bad they could lose Hillary the election? That would surprise me.
I guess what is particularly strange to me, is why do this now? If they knew they were badly exposed, surely they could have taken action a long while ago when the spotlight on their activity was lower.
[0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/787889195507417088 (HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12722929)
[0] pre-commitment 1: John Kerry 4bb96075acadc3d80b5ac872874c3037a386f4f595fe99e687439aabd0219809
[0] pre-commitment 3: UK FCO f33a6de5c627e3270ed3e02f62cd0c857467a780cf6123d2172d80d02a072f74
pre-commitment 2: Ecuador eae5c9b064ed649ba468f0800abf8b56ae5cfe355b93b1ce90a1b92a48a9ab7
pre-commitment 3: UK FCO f33a6de5c627e3270ed3e02f62cd0c857467a780cf6123d2172d80d02a072f74
claim from intelAnon that Ecuador had caved in to pressure from the Clintons:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu7pNidVIAAUweO.jpg:large
The hashes then being a message from Assange, or it my be Assange being paranoid.. Or something else entirely.
(Addition: Also, if Assange is using the embassy's network access, then I would be dubious of any claims that it's been "cut off," as the UK FO isn't going to willfully violate Vienna Convention strictures over Wikileaks, at least not without a stiffly worded demarche and a whole lot of legal cover.)
I think who the leaks hurt or don't hurt isn't really the problem. The problem is that a foreign power is selectively leaking data from one political party in order to influence the outcome of the election. It would be just as bad, imo, if they were leaking Trump and the RNC's emails.
The way the joint statement has been covered by the media you can easily be led to believe that the US 1. has actually blamed Russia for the DNC hack 2. this is due to evidence they have. This is not true.
When the joint statement [0] is closely read, taking note of legalese, this is clear as day.
[0] https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/215-pr...
That is not an accusation that the Russians are behind the DNC/Podesta leaks. Read carefully. These statements are constructed with the utmost care.
Alright, I suppose there was the Office of Personnel Management breach. Yeah, ok I concede your point.
> "including from US political organizations"
edit: saw your edit. I can see why it is easy to believe what they are saying is totally unambiguous. I would suggest to anyone reading the joint statement that they dissect and debug it like they would code. Parse each statement carefully and check what assertions, are being put forward (these are almost certainly true, gone through many lawyers). Then check what variables in that sentence are definitely assigned to something.
Edit: Also, why would legalese be necessary here? What court is the US government worried about?
1. Covers any timeframe. "Recent" does not mean anything. It could refer to attacks 10+ years ago.
2.1 The first assertion is Russia has directed attacks. This is then a list of things that have been targeted. Point 1. then can refer to any in this list. It is highly plausible that Russia has targeted private or public US citizens, or institutions "recently" for any number of reasons.
2.2 Which political organisation is it referring to? This could be any number, why not explicitly name DNC if this is what they are referring to?
>If you're not able to explain what you mean, can you at least think of an alternative wording that would be unambiguous?
"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the compromise of the DNC and Podesta systems that resulted in the leaks currently being reported on."
Essentially. If an example can be produced which is fully in line with these statements, which is not "Russia behind DNC hack" then it is not an assertion of this fact.
Edit:
>Also, why would legalese be necessary here? What court is the US government worried about?
Because if the DNC/Podesta hacks turn out not to be directed/carried out by Russia, an insider leak for example, then credibility of the group plummets.
If credibility is the only thing at stake here, then the legalese is irrelevant. As you noted, it seems like everyone besides you took this statement to be an unambiguous accusation. If it turns out to be wrong, the technical wording will not matter. James Clapper could not maintain credibility by claiming "Oh no you misunderstood, we were talking about a leak from 5 years ago". From a PR standpoint, that would look a lot worse than just saying "We screwed up, sometimes the evidence is misleading".
What's more interesting to me is that Wikileaks is mentioned specifically in that release. I'm surprised they did this. They'd surely score more points by not acknowledging that Wikileaks exists. The fact that they did, really clearly supports what the OP said, in my opinion.
At what point in that sentence do they refer to the DNC/Podesta hacks and leaks? These statements are crafted by teams of lawyers to get the wording absolutely correct.
It seems quite unusual to me.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/reaction-to-us-...
Personally I've found the worst way to read the news is from one single "unbiased" source and the best is to read from a bunch of sources who do not hide their bias. When I see what facts are universally agreed upon then I make my own decision. I do the same thing with business decisions too.
Yes, it is quite unusual. The banks only do it if they expect regulatory, legal or political fallout if they keep the customer. Or if the customer is always trouble, not paying their debt or harassing employees.
Obviously, a bank would never kick a customer to the curb if a normal customer relationship is possible.
US citizens are a great example for this. With tensions between Russia and the West rising it's only a matter of time until Russian organizations and citizens become less than desirable as well.
This has the effect of making it impossible for outliers to operate, even if they are doing so entirely within the law.
I don't think this is acceptable. UK banks over a certain size should be required to provide service (a universal service obligation), or otherwise the UK government should arrange a framework such that outliers can always receive basic transactional banking services.
Would be interesting if it's in relation to the UK equivalent of the Federal Reserve implying they'd be "simply dropping RBS as a customer" if they didn't do so.
What's the point of even stating something like this?
While that'd be interesting on it's own, if the ancient lizard people aren't in charge of the UK finance ministry then it has nothing to do with this.
> What's the point of even stating something like this?
I'm making fun of the GP poster downplaying this as a non-issue. A bank doesn't drop a customer for no reason and given their for-profit motivation the only reason would be political pressure.
Much the same logic holds for disabling any business enterprise.
Dismissing this as "a simple bank action" is naive in the extreme.
(Discussions of the justification for actions on the basis of an other-than-simple-bank-action are another matter.)
https://www.rt.com/news/362985-julian-assange-internet-link/
Wikileaks also apparently triggered a dead-man's switch, releasing keys to several pre-committed posts. This has spawned (false) rumours of Assange's death, addressed in the article above.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3602381/is-julian-assange-dead-vira...