Hacker News Reader

> Trump believes Muslims, including US citizens, should be prevented from entering the US.

From Thiel's RNC speech: "Instead of going to Mars, we have invaded the Middle East."

I am (please read this in dry english english), let us say, not exactly a fan of Mr. Trump.

On the other hand, I'm also ... not exactly a fan ... of bombing the crap out of a shit load of muslims either.

So I'm not honestly sure that one is necessarily as clear cut as it might be, given history.

I'm rooting for Hillary from my side of the pond because of, well, every single other reason you mention and a bunch of others too. But still. I think Thiel's wrong, but I think I can see how he logic-ed himself into his current position.

> Eich's support for Prop 8 was relatively insignificant.

So you will personally fail to condemn a disagreeable action as long as you judge it to be ineffective?

In other words, effective support for immoral ideas (in your view) is the objectionable thing?

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute.

* Eich was ousted from a full-time job. Thiel is not an employee of YC.

We don't normally consider CEOs to be the sort of person where we have to worry about their ability to find another job.

* Eich's beliefs were well within the mainstream; Barack Obama campaigned in opposition to marriage equality.

That's a difference of degree, and a smaller one than we would both prefer; Trump did manage to get nominated, after all. I don't think you can say (alas) that Trumpism is completely out of the mainstream in 2016.

* Eich's support for Prop 8 was quiet.

True, but does it really count for much?

* Eich's support for Prop 8 was relatively insignificant.

Another difference of degree. For all we know, Eich may have donated a larger fraction of his bank account than Thiel did.

* For that matter, marriage equality is a substantially different issue than Trumpism.

Marriage equality is one issue and Trump has raised many, that's true. But I think the attitudes in which Prop. 8 support was rooted, and those in which Trumpism is rooted, are essentially identical. For instance, a rearguard action against marriage equality is still being fought in Alabama, and I expect my relatives there are big supporters of both Roy Moore [0] and Trump. In fact it's interesting, now that I think of it, that Trump has not attacked gays; it would certainly play well with much of his audience. Maybe it says something about how far we've come, or maybe he's just too busy attacking Mexicans, Muslims, and women to bother with gays.

A better argument might be that Prop. 8 was just a return to the status quo ante, while Trumpism is an existential threat to the nation. Why a smart man like Peter Thiel can't see that is beyond me too. But I can see the argument that Thiel is not evil, just deluded.

(P.S. You're a brave man, using asterisks on HN :-)

[0] http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/10/lawyer_t...

Shifty of you to imply both that I can go jobless and potentially unhirable on short notice, and that the lowest possible four figure dollar amount might also be more of my liquid net worth than Thiel's donation is to his bank account balance. One or the other, not both!

I think we've had a loss of context here. I wasn't speaking against you; I was replying to Thomas's argument that the situation with YC and Thiel is fundamentally different from that with Mozilla and you.

Are you really going to tell me you think YC should dissociate from Thiel? I grant your point -- my argument had a bug -- but I would think you would support the spirit in which I offered it.

Anyway, since you're here in person, let me say to you directly: I'm sorry I signed that OkCupid petition.

Thanks. You know that Yagan and OkCupid were just going for the PR, playing with social media outrage fire.

IAC (Ok's parent co) was doing a deal with Mozilla, I'm pretty sure we could have backed them off, had I remained.

I can't say more right now, but I'll note that a headhunter linked-in-mailed me late in 2014 asking if I wanted to be CTO of Match/Ok/etc. -- the IAC dating services.

https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/543545707152429056

Too funny!

That is a hoot.

It's not so much that Thiel is deluded.

What I think leaves many of us aghast is the entitlement and lack of empathy it takes for wealthy white men to not see what Trump and his supporters will and are doing to many of our friends and family. At this point they are willfully blind, but because it doesn't affect them personally, that makes it ok.

When Trump and/or his surrogates angrily scream that the election is being stolen (by black people), that black people voting is illegitimate, that it's ok to jail your political opponents, that the current president is illegitimate because he's black, or he didn't rape her because she's not hot enough, it makes it fundamentally not ok to support him. Romney or Bush really didn't make similar claims.

People who support Trump with speeches and money should be shunned.