Comment by cgag | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cgag | Hacker News Reader

I think the guy from fluentforever has the general pattern down correctly:

1) learn phonetics and pronunciation

2) learn a base of of the most common words (he has a list of 625 words, I think wikipedias "simple english" word requirements would be another good source). Do this with anki.

3) start studying grammar

4) move onto native materials (while continuing with anki)

I also think that most people massively underrate vocabulary study. With consistency, at only 15 words a day you could deeply learn ~5400 words a year with anki. I think it would be pretty easy to do more if you were dedicated, but 15 is pretty sustainable. The rate you tend to be taught vocabulary in college level courses is crazy low.

[0]: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2014/07/16/how-to-learn-any-lang... I swear this guy isn't the type of charlatan you'd expect to be associated with Ferris.

I hope this doesn't feel too spammy but I'd love if people had any feedback on the basic idea behind the tool I posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=12717657

Totally agree on vocabulary, it's by far the most important part. You can mostly understand and be understood without grammar.

I pick comic books in the target language, that I've already read in my native language, and start making word lists. Comic books are cool because obviously the pictures help, and the story will follow a theme, so the same words will come back over and over again. And they're not so long as to feel like you'll never make it through. Motivation is the #1 predictor of successful learning, and the apps have never appealed to me as much as reading a good story.

I'll suggest that schools teach grammar mostly because it makes for a much more "academic" lesson than teaching vocabulary. You don't need school to learn vocabulary.

just an anecdote, but my grandpa learned english from comic books.

First comic books, then children's literature. For example, for French, Asterix and Tintin, then Le Petit Nicolas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_petit_Nicolas

After that, airport novels, because the vocabulary and grammar are straightforward.

I have been planning to start looking (and translating) at movie subtitles in the language I learn. My theory It should show both natural speech, common words, common sentences and so on. Thoughts on that?

Lots of people have learned English by watching Friends, the Simpsons, etc. You could watch movies in their original language, with English subtitles to help out. My guess is that comics are easier for your first 300 words or so.

I actually meant English movies with [language I'm learning] subtitles. Not for the listening part, but for the vocabulary + grammar part of the sentences.

And don't forget:

5) Go out and talk to people that speak the language (don't be afraid to make mistakes)

6) Or, if 5) is not an option, watch television shows in that language. Can be anything you like, simple comedy works best for me.

This is a fairly good basic guide for developing low-level proficiency. This type of method is good for learning the language needed to get around in a country in which the language is spoken as well as engage in some casual small talk.

I discussed the issue of proficiency levels in quite a bit of detail in my response :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12719463

You mention a few points about memorizing vocabulary:

> The rate you tend to be taught vocabulary in college level courses is crazy low.

This is absolutely correct in most courses in the US. That said, most people I have know who went on to work in the foreign language they learned in school spent a lot of time learning beyond what was required for class.

> at only 15 words a day you could deeply learn ~5400 words a year with anki

This is largely a trap. At approximately 1000-2000 words in most languages, it is important to make a gradual shift from memorization tasks to fluency tasks. Memorization can be great to review learned vocabulary and/or to learn and review technical vocabulary, but most of the learning time should be spent immersed in authentic target language (e.g., reading content by native speakers for native speakers, watching TL videos, etc.). There are no shortage of situations where a person will know the word/phrase for manifold or nuclear non-proliferation treaty, but they will not have the discourse skills to use these words in a meaningful way.

Have you used this level of memorization successfully? If so, what other language tasks were you engaging in at the same time? I am genuinely curious -- a clean way to shift from high levels of memorization to higher levels of functional fluency is not a fully cracked nut.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com