Want to Know Julian Assange’s Endgame? He Told You a Decade Ago
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Secret organisations with hidden agendas are at a disadvantage. They have to reduce internal communication because secrets leak. However this cripples them. In the long term they can't compete against transparent and beneficial organisations. This leads to a better world.
This is brilliant. Mr Assange is worth a Peace Nobel prize.
It makes me think of this fascinating article [1]:
«The problem, Seetah said, was that these protests led to a situation where butchers were afraid to let the public see how animals are killed. So they stopped bull-baiting, but a new lack of transparency descended on the meat industry. And that led directly to the hidden abattoir system, which ultimately led to more abuse. So there's a kind of vicious circle, where humanity's ethical concerns about butchery can actually backfire and drive the practice of meat production out of public view.»
and I'm concerned that Wikileaks in its striving for stature is going to end up subverting political system by trying to play games to force them to be better — though of course what I would like to see is a completely transparent form of government.
1. http://arstechnica.com/video/2016/04/ars-technica-live-1-the...
The new reality is not "evil persona holds dagger to your throat", rather that motivated persons are empowered to securely spill secrets the world over. By turning around the fallacious "nothing to hide" argument, Assange is making some secretive groups quite literally pay and squirm against the possibility of unknown assailants and the 'threat' of real transparency. Good job.
pay and squirm sounds vindicative and that sentiment is self referencing because the ones paying and squirming are doing so because how they would editorialise is fundamentally different then those doing the editorialising
from the site as of this writing under the submit page(o):
> WikiLeaks publishes documents of political or historical importance that are censored or otherwise suppressed. We specialise in strategic global publishing and large archives.
importance is the language of an editor.. censor?
Leaks may very well not lead to some liberal pseudo anarchist utopia but lead to further consolidation of power, secrecy and more and more tougher reactions and control of information.
And while you might think that this won't happen it will, leaks don't play that well in the public when they start touching individuals especially when you can spin them as an attack.
Unconditional release of information especially in large leaks leads to the public being against the leakers.
Releasing some DNC emails/documents might be acceptable by the majority of the public, releasing all the documents including donor information and private information of simple low level employees, volunteers or anyone who has registered or shown interest in a political party would not be well received by the public even without any spins.
If you are able to break their narrative then the dictatorship has no other way than using massive force to maintain control, in which case everybody will know from now on that they are being enslaved and this will have an effect in the future. (citizens will be less cooperative in a non offending way)
They are also as you said control the media which means you control the narrative, wikileaks would have 0 impact if the media would not have picked their leaks up and run with them, the amount of people who access that site and read the information directly is negligible.
Also since the regiems not only control the media but also the medium e.g. the internet good luck at breaking through, if it's truly a walled garden state there is very little you can actually do, and with the right amount of force and preemptive control over the narrative even a full external media blitz won't really help you.
There is a difference between transparency and abuse, wikileaks is walking a very thin line, and it has passed it several times by refusing the curate information which does not score them any points. Assange's crusade against clinton does also not sit well with many people even if they mostly agree with his ideology, his latest interview on Real Time with Bill Maher about a month ago did not score him many points when he confronted Bill about his donations to the the democratic party.
The problem is that with secrecy the latter has historically tendend not to be the public who the negotiators are supposed to represent. See TPP or if you're from EU/Canada see CETA for the rewards of secret negotiations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Tra...
Once trust erodes in the state these leaks tend to happen such as in the Iraq war post WMD debacle with the Manning leaks, or NSA preceding Snowden leaks, outcry over TTP negotiations, etc, etc, there is a real positive incentive in transparency over the benefits that come from secrecy. Otherwise the government has a habit of losing sight of whose interests they are supposed to be representing.
Bad for everyone involved. Not every deal is bad, and deals often can happen only because good gets packaged with the bad.
If every negotiation happened in public, no nations would ever be able to sign agreements with one another. That's a recipe for paralysis and disaster.
- Adam Smith
Particularly when the packaging is done without scrutiny. Or waiting for scrutiny until after the fact where it becomes a black or white proposal... past the negotiation stage where details are debated. The public is left to mearly accept or deny it.
Just look at CETA, a particularly harmful clause was dropped only after they were called out for lacking transparency and decided to respond to the public uproar. Even with that minor revision the whole deal is at risk of totally failing because it contains too many controversial sections to pass each EU legislatior. Had they considered and included the public years earlier, rather than focusing just on the vested parties in backroom negotiation, this could have been avoided.
The public shouldnt have to fight tooth and nail be listened to.
If they were capable of making good deals in secret in a way that maintained the public trust then I'd otherwise completely agree with you. Because it's inefficient otherwise. But given the string of policies that came out recently, trust clearly has eroded and these types of deals are a good example of why.
I don't see that as a definite conclusion.
At present, the status quo for most nations is that they secretly negotiate an agreement and then either (1) put it to public plebiscite or (2) pass it into law through legislative assembly.
Both cases usually result in the details of the agreement being made public before they become law, including the "bad bits", so for what reason would moving that public visibility back in time scupper all negotiations?
There would be media interest in and hype around the negotiations, naturally, but if the existing systems already prevent public intervention in those stages then it's just making them "read-only" instead of "encrypted".
Imagine there's a that would weakly benefit 95% of society, but negatively impact 5%, but the net tradeoff is positive.
It's already somewhat difficult to pass these sorts of agreements, because if that 5% is an organized interest group with broad public sympathy, they will blast the media with negative media coverage.
Now imagine that a negative provision for that group was being considered while the agreement hadn't even been finalized. Then everyone only sees the downside for that group, without seeing that the final agreement is generally positive.
Public negotiations will effectively magnify the veto power of small interest groups, making agreements much more difficult to pass.
Note that this also applies to laws in general, since they're often a negotiating between parties or within parties. Do you think it would be beneficial if every private communication between legislators was made public?
A wikileaks world doesn't mean you can't keep your nuclear launch codes safe, something for which you are presumably ready to spend major resources with tight control in a small circle.
It just means that you now have to spend more effort keeping all your petty graft secret at the low end, and it reduces toward zero the probability that a large manpower intensive conspiracy can work, in the more important democidal case.
So, the thesis holds, the powers inclined toward malfeasance will have a little nudge at every choice point, toward the option they won't mind being discovered. Like a surveillance camera pointed at the minimum wage cashier's hands, except at the people who control nation-states.
The problem is that secrecy doesn't purely serve 'petty graft', but also allows politicians to actually make deals and get things done.
The thesis that 'raising the cost of secrecy' is always a good thing is unproven. Plus, Assange et al are less a neutral information source, but rather an active participant in politics with their own, hidden motivations.
Over the last 30 years, we've repeatedly seen the reform of politics in the US aimed at eliminating graft and taking power away from politicians and putting it in the hands of voters. Over the same period of time, politics here as gotten more and more dysfunctional.
Relevant: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-amer...
I submit that voters are often unable to effectively make compromises and form voting blocs with others. It used to fall to politicians to negotiate behind closed doors to hash out a deal. In Assange's secret-less world, that won't be possible.
And it's very fair to say that it's unknown if the Wikileaks cost-of-secrecy effect is a net good one, especially when you're starting with reasonably good institutions, civil society, and rule of law.
But it's a straw man argument to wrap up with reference to "Assange's secret-less world". My original point holds, this isn't a binary switch that flips, it's an incremental effect.
Assange may be flawed but no one can accuse him of not being ideologically consistent here.
The media can and often does publish anything they get from government sources. Wikileaks isn't unique here.
NYT is notorious for writing articles daily with "anonymous government sources" as the only source. Often unquestionably supporting a pro-US policy position. Does that make NYT/WaPo/etc pawns?
Wikileaks is not immune from being manipulated by Intel agencies to push agendas. You're fooling yourself if you think the news organizations who have been accusing Wikileaks of doing this with moral outrage aren't also doing the same.
There's probably a good argument in favour of the fact Wikileaks actually releases the raw data without caring about the source. Rather than continually taking quotes from 'anonymous' sources while feigning neutrality.
Precisely. It's funny how the media and Clinton campaign want to spin this as "The Russians!", and completely ignore the cesspool contained within those leaks.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/27/trump-freedom-press-n...
Can you honestly say that you feel he is treated in a fair way by the media and they are not trying their best to prevent a Trump presidency even if that includes outright lying?
If he wanted to force them to lie for him it would be a completely different thing. But since he wants media to report more truthfully I see more alignment between Trump and Assange than seeing them at odds with each others.
He's been in the media for 40 years without anyone calling him racist and he's been around supermodels without anyone calling him a sexual predator or anything like that. But all of a sudden they find he is all of that and even worse.
And on the other hand, how much negative stuff is reported about Hillary? There certainly is lots of material with all that WikiLeaks has put out. Almost zero, she is instead praised like a Soviet leader. She's a wonderful human being and politician that somehow made $250 million while in office.
Furthermore, plenty has been said about Hillary. The Wikileaks leak was on the front page of the NYTimes, WaPo, and tons of other newspapers. So were the allegations about her health in September. Unfortunately for Trump, none of these attacks have stuck with voters.
But "voters" haven't had a voice since the primaries...only the media has. "none...stuck with the voters" = not covered by the media.
Does he? He seems pretty upset when media calls him on his lies. Or is that first "he" Assange?
I wish there were someone willing to leak the secrets of lots of other organizations, but I won't name them because I don't want to be killed for saying that.
I'd love it if Wikileaks released tons of documents exposing the DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA, DoD, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Group, Peter Thiel's vampire cult and everything that happened in Bohemian Grove.
From my HN username, you can link to my Twitter handle, and then my website, which has my real name. Do your worst, I'm here to teach the controversy.
He intends to live forever by injecting himself with the blood of younger people (along with HGH, etc.). Google "peter thiel blood", or just check out this article, he seems pretty serious about this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2016/08/02/peter-thiel-...
As for your statement that Snowden fled to Russia: false! Snowden was on his way to latin america and the State Dept froze his passport en route, stranding him in Moscow when his plane landed for a connection. This misinformation will never die.
This election has simply made it harder to deny that Wikileaks operates as a front for Russian intelligence, but the evidence was there years ago.
It seems strange to rebut my comment with unrelated commentary.
> Trump has, of course, faced the leaks of his 1995 tax returns and a [1]damning video where he brags about sexual assault
The author links to an article with this headline: [1] "Trump recorded having extremely lewd conversation about women in 2005"
!= "Trump brags about sexual assault" (implying guilt)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-havin...
I do not like the opinion/politicization going on in the article. There is no evidence of sexual assault in the tape the author links.
Makes me question the bias of this whole article...
The quotes from Trump state outright that he engages in sexual conduct with women, without obtaining consent from them to do so. Engaging in sexual conduct with someone without their consent is sexual assault.
The US may have a lot of unsavory parts, but rule of law and presumption of innocence are not one of them. Perhaps the progressives can stop trying to undermine them in the name of unguided censorship (e.g. trying to censor "bro banter" by painting it as sexual assault)
Was it even a non-private conversation?
This is my point exactly. Yet somehow I've gotten 4 downvotes for stating so. To be fair, I was prepared to be downvoted for that comment. Anything remotely pro-trump here is downvoted to hell.
"Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything."
No, he literally is not.
"Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything." != "I forcefully grab women by the vagina"
but I can see this is a losing battle.
> That's true whether or not there is evidence of his words being true.
Ah, the old "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence" defense.