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Comment by pwthornton | Hacker News Reader

Smartphone maps are so superior because they are always up to date, can provide real-time traffic data, can tell you to take an alternative route and can provide other data about places to eat, etc.

While a lot of car GPSs have some of this, they are no where near what Google Maps or Apple Maps (or a targeted app like Waze) has. I bought a new car last year, and intentionally didn't get the GPS, even though my car has a 7-inch touchscreen. I would never use those crappy maps when I have my phone with me. If the car supported Carplay, I would 100% use maps through that.

This is why Carplay and Android Auto are the future. Their apps, APIs and data are so superior to whatever car companies can come up with.

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Yeah, I'm not sure why car companies invested at all in attempting to build their own mapping software. It's a hard thing to do well, and I had been using GPS in the car since Windows 98 + Microsoft Streets + Garmin eMap + serial adapter running NEMA days. PC or smartphone navigation software has always been better than what is available in cars. Additionally, while the upgrade cycle for phones is yearly for some people, the upgrade cycle for cars can be 10 years or more, and good luck ever getting a software upgrade after buying a car.

Whatever car I buy next, I wouldn't buy without CarPlay. There are also replacement stereos which support this (e.g. Pioneer appradio) but given how most cars don't still use a 2 DIN slot for the radio and have much more integrated systems (drive modes, HVAC controls, etc on the "radio"), it's not even possible to upgrade many without losing significant factory functionality.

My hope is that auto mfgs wise up and realize that they've been wasting billions developing these in-house systems, and instead switch to just having the car be a dumb monitor + speakers with a connection to your phone which runs all of the non-critical systems.

Even then, the AC and other integrated controls could easily be ios/android apps and integrated into the device's connection... Yes, a given app for a/c might suck, but the rest of the ux doesn't have to.

I've always wondered why it took manufacturers so long to put in a 3.5mm jack into head units--it would have saved us a lot of awful tape adapters in the 90s and CD changer emulators in the 2000s.

Ha, and apple just removed the 3.5mm jack from their phones. Perhaps the entire reason for it was to get CarPlay into more cars :P

No. It wasn't. And by the way, the iPhone 7 can still output to a 3.5mm aux jack just fine, which you probably already knew, or should know.

And then you can't charge it. Terrible trade-off.

I know its trendy right now to hate on the removal of the 35mm headphone jack but this comment is simply false. You can charge it while using the headphone jack - you just need a silly dongle or a dock to do it.

http://www.belkin.com/au/p/P-F8J198/

http://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MGRM2AM/A/iphone-lightn...

which is less than any super cheap android/whatever can do. seriously, wrong and arrogant move. if we users are stupid enough to vote with our money for this, then of course it's all our fault collectively. i know i won't

I was joking. And I do know that the iPhone 7 has an adapter for the 3.5mm jack, as it came in the box with my iPhone 7.

And those little FM transmitter dongles!

"I'm not sure why car companies invested at all in attempting to build their own mapping software."

Given how much the OEMs charge for the systems (often it's a $2K upcharge), plus how much they charge for updates (typically $150 - $200), the manufacturers undoubtedly saw it as a potentially profitable product development effort.

Does Carplay allow choosing which maps app serves the maps, or are you forced to use the apple maps? I'm sure people love Apple's app but it's given me many, many, many too many illegal directions for me to ever trust it.

I have CarPlay in my 2016 VW Golf R and the only map app that shows up is Apple Maps. I can still use Google Maps; I just plan my route on that app, and then bring up Apple Maps in CarPlay if I need to actually see a map. Google Maps continues to send driving directions through the car audio system even while Apple Maps is displayed. Still hoping Google Maps becomes an authorized CarPlay app eventually.

That is such bullshit

Neither Carplay nor Android Auto have multiple supported maps apps yet. Android Auto only allows you to use Google maps, but I don't have a problem with that since Google maps is very good. IIRC, they announced at the last Google IO that they're going to be supporting Waze in the near future.

Automakers have wizened up that they aren't the software companies they had hoped to be, however, the alternatives on offered in Android Auto and Carplay aren't too appetizing of alternatives to them.

While I do see telematics going the "dumb terminal" route, Google and Apple's approach of becoming a major reason why you buy a car has brought automakers into an uneasy truce with big tech. Cars just become more data pipes to fuel the ad engine while becoming a primary interaction point with drivers, cutting auto guys out of the information loop.

That's partially what's been holding up adoption. You have entire divisions inside big auto being threatened. Their "new feature" pipeline also starts coming from Google and Apple, requesting deeper control and functionality in the car as consumers demand a more seamless experience.

> ... and good luck ever getting a software upgrade after buying a car.

Nissan wants ~$800 USD for a map upgrade (which is just a microSD card, if I understand correctly) for my 2014 Nissan Altima and Dodge wants a little under $200 for a map upgrade for my 2013 Dodge Ram. Yet I can freely download updates and perform map upgrades myself on my 2014 Harley-Davidson motorcycle in about 10 minutes using just a USB flash drive.

Ironically, the Harley is the only one of these that I would ever actually consider paying for.

On the rare occasion that we find that the maps aren't up to date, either the girlfriend or myself will just whip out our iPhone and open up the Maps apps instead -- just as described in this article.

I'll probably stop paying extra for all of the "upgrades" the next time I buy a vehicle. I typically spring for every feature/option package that's available but they are becoming less and less "worth it" as time goes on.

Acura wants me to spend something like $179 to update the maps for my in-car navigation system. For that money I can buy a windshield phone mount and a nice cable with cash leftover to take the wife out to dinner.

They're not the only one, I recently bought a Nissan and I have to pay around the same amount for a new sd card which contains the update to be shipped which is a waste of time and money compared to just opening Google Maps every morning.

It's not just the money, it's the time. Lexus wants me to wait two days to special order navigation software for my car. Which leads to the question: why the hell do I need to wait 2 days for software in 2016?

Try being international, you get bounced around to a bunch of broken links on their website trying to find the "correct" software version. Then half the time you can't download it because your country (Australia) is a "security risk" and they can't export software for a device on retail shelves.

You also forgot that they are fast with responsive UI. And that's only if you compare the best of the car built-in GPS. If it is not the top of range (which btw is not related to the price of the car), the UI is generally awful.

If you are a google/apple map user. Searching for an address is a million type easier: roughly type some part of the address and it will find it. No such luck with car gps.

At this stage you wonder why car manufacturer even bother. They should just allow to plug a tablet and run software made by people that understand software, and restrict themselves to providing a simple interface to car metric, hud and maybe cameras.

I really don't understand why they bother with most of the 'fancy' systems they put in.. Its like everything is half-assed. I have a 1 year old truck, that has Satellite audio, Radio, 4G wifi hotspot, etc, and somehow, I have to set the clock manually in the settings, using crappy buttons..

Hahaha, that's amazing. I made a pledge to myself years ago that I would never buy another clock/watch/timekeeping device that didn't set itself.

Somewhere in that car you purchased is a clock that sets itself, it just doesn't cooperate with the rest of the car. Bummer.

This 10x! Car manufacturers are reinventing the wheel. I wonder how Tesla does this though, its display looks pretty cool but never had the chance to play with it.

Tesla's system is pretty good, and it's the only one that is. Then again, Tesla is the only car company that employs people who actually understand software.

It's even better: "OK Google, take me home" -> 3 seconds later Maps app is open and navigation is in progress. No typing required.

Honda does this. Using their HondaLink interface, you plug in your iPhone, then you can choose which GPS system you prefer to appear on the display -- Honda's or Apple's. And of course, Apple's GUI lets you access the web to search for your destination using a simple text or voice interface then navigate using either Google's or Apple's or Mapquest's or Microsoft's maps.

IMHO it's the smart web-based search interface that makes web-based maps so superior to car maps. And yes, the web-based live traffic data is nice to have too.

And the UI on the apps seem to be better. I have an old Land Rover, and whoever wrote the software didn't consider that you need to be showing the current location of the car when displaying a junction. It's no use to me seeing a junction, which can be very complex in the UK, and then not giving an indication of how close I am to it. Am I a mile away? 100m? Oh, I missed it.

Seems to have traffic info though, even though it's quite old. Around London it basically displays a huge jumble of arrows, to the point where you can't see the Thames.

Seems to me what they need to do is just let the phone use the touchscreen in the car. You want to show movies to the kids anyway, and your media will all fit on the phone.

> Seems to me what they need to do is just let the phone use the touchscreen in the car. You want to show movies to the kids anyway, and your media will all fit on the phone.

That's exactly what Android Auto and Carplay do. On my Ford with Sync 3, I installed the Android Auto app on the phone. Then I plug the phone's usb cable into the car's usb port, and the dash display transforms to something controlled by the phone.

I once asked what it would cost to update my Prius' built-in navigator maps: cirka 200 €. And after few years it would be again out of date. I'm not sure whether to blame the car manufacturer or navigator software supplier for the situation, but at least this is very short-sighted thinking from Toyota.

By the way, I still prefer the built-in unit because it has better integration with audio system and windscreen HUD. The usability is actually pretty good despite its age.

Similar issue: the built-in navigator can show realtime location-aware traffic warnings from TMC broadcast, but only if they are non-encrypted. In my country they switched to commercial / encrypted TMC broadcasts few years ago, rendering the feature unusable for my car, and Toyota won't update the navigator unit to support encrypted TMC.

And even if the auto companies could do something as well as Google/Apple, it would still be several years out of date once it finally shipped in new cars.

I know my Audi has Google Maps, and real time traffic.

I think one of the other issues is how many GPS systems refuse to let you enter addresses en route and make you stop and / or pull the handbrake. This increases frustration hugely.

The Audi system says "please don't do this while driving" - you say "Okay" and are able to do so.

The other thing I find infuriating is having to agree to some license agreement every time the car is started.

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