Booted out of Bootup Labs

Allow me to note something. As a Canadian and a Vancouverite.

While I do not particularly like Bootup Labs for a variety of reasons, I cannot say that I believe either side of the story and that I can form an objective opinion. For this reason I find it strange that you take it on yourself to apologize on my behalf.

Even after contacting them it never felt right and we passed. I really feel for these guy, that could have been us.

Furthermore, Canadians do not apologize for everything. I know plenty who never apologize for anything.

Also, a little more ranting about Bootup labs, there are way too many programs like this that are actually credible. I encourage all who are thinking of applying to their program to strongly consider otherwise. If you can't get into another better incubation program, it means your idea needs more work. I haven't seen anything positive from bootup labs and I can't say anything positive about the leadership behind bootup labs -- this was true way before this very revealing incident.

Any entrepreneur considering joining the bootup labs program is better served to keep their day jobs and bootstrap their company without bootup labs. Please, stay far far away.

Hey Danny.

I apologize that you feel like I'm twisting the truth.

It was the last week in January until the end of last Month. While we were there 3 months of the year, you are correct 2 months would be more accurate,

I was just getting the $100k off of the Bootup website, I understood that we got $150k, but that $50k went back to Bootup, is that not what the original terms were?

You did pay our rent and our legal fees to get incorporated. I mentioned the rent, but I didn't mention the legal fees. I apologize.

I didn't suggest that Bootup was closing down or was out of money.

I wouldn't suggest that I got the better end of the deal as it was extremely expensive to move to and live in Vancouver.

I wish you all well.

It's often too easy to jump to the wrong conclusion... but I'm struggling to see a decent explanation for this. And anything less than a full apology is a huge red flag.

[Taxi driver takes customer 4 miles, throws him out of the cab in a bad neighborhood to pick up a more profitable customer, and drives away. Customer flips off driver as he speeds away.]

Driver, yelling out of window: "What are you complaining about? I took you 4 miles and didn't even charge you!!"

You know, there are any number of people in the city I live in who are quite willing and able waste a few months of my life, drain my bank balances and crush my spirit without asking me to move to another city in another country.

In the long term the introductions might be useful but they are they only upside I see in this whole situation.

Agreed with DanBlake: "Wow".

we received nothing in return.

Isn't the whole point of these programs to enable founders to do their thing in an environment they can't find anywhere else?

If you're expected to manage a project and provide deliverables over a timeline, why not just go out and find a customer? You get to keep all their money and all your equity. And you still get to advance your product.

If, on the other hand, you want to develop a game changer, uncontrained by customer demands, you save up or take investment and go to your lab. Your are no longer a developer; you are an inventor. Sure, everyone wants to show progress, but not at the expense of pursuing the breakthroughs you will need to hit the home run desired by your investor(s).

Investors, if you want a home run from your founders, you may just have to wait a while for the baby to gestate. Expecting "something in return" in the first 2 months of a 10 month program is an unreasonable expectation IMO. Just do your share and get out of the way.

This is a common tactic of a con-artist and or sociopath. They try to deflect back onto the one drawing attention for two purposes. One to discredit the one lodging complaint and two to try and strong arm the more passive party into silence.

Humans, as a general rule of thumb, dislike conflict. You can see it in Jamie's responses where he is still apologetic to these guys, when logic would dictate that he should want their head on a platter.

Sociopaths see human responses such as this, like an artist sees a completed painting on a blank canvas, and they will use it against you. When I read that line quoted above, I realized right then that Dan is most-likely a sociopath and a person to be avoided.

Someone introduced me to a bootup labs person and within just a few sentences I knew these characters were to be avoided. It is difficult for me to rationalize these feelings in ways that can help stop the bad future I see that makes me have these feelings. I don't want to share the feelings, because they are just feelings. I try to only share opinions I can rationalize, because I don't want to be wrong about a negative feeling if the person is actually good and I'm wrong in my assessment.

It's like when I interacted with them, I saw how the compounding negativity of their influence was going to affect the startup community in Vancouver. My feeling made me want to stay far, far away from anyone involved in bootup labs or involved with them or their "groups". I want a good group to be seen as the leader in Vancouver, but it's almost like the stage has been set there and it was designed by bootup labs.

I don't know where the impressions like these come from. I don't know why I have them or how exactly I knew bootup labs was going to turn out badly.

In Texas, there is a saying, "All hat and no cattle." I don't know if there is a similar expression in BC or not, but it's like I can tell that what they were saying was intended to "sell" those who simply didn't know enough to steer clear of them. The bootup labs people are great at sales and giving the impression of power, certainty, and success -- but I never saw any of it.

I want to help people steer clear of individuals like this, but people who say negative stuff about others are often themselves looked down upon. Moms say, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." Well, sometimes, keeping your mouth shut can itself have negative repercussions.

As someone who is still struggling with how to properly behave in social situations, how am I to react when I am confronted by a situation like this?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but when you burn people (even unintentionally or with the best of intentions), it makes it harder for everyone else to do deals.

Not to be facetious, but: A program which doesn't have as much money as they're offering people.

The founders of Bootup Labs put some of their own money in, but they're raising money (or trying, at least) from VCs for the rest. They're paying themselves [EDIT: or not -- see reply from dannyrobinson below] from the $50k/startup management fee, not just from expected future profits.

Are there any other startup accelerators which do things this way? I'm not aware of any.

I think we all understood that, given that your post mentioned that 3 of the 7 companies in the cohort were not being cut loose.

It's a bad idea to slight individuals you don't know anything about just because you think they belong to a generic 'VC' category.

VERY bold statement.

It's a good thing, too. While their misfortune has certainly hurt people, myself included, Bootup is a great addition to the Vancouver startup ecosystem. 3 new companies is far better than 0 in my books. They also throw fantastic events and mentor many more entrepreneurs than they fund.

I was trying to put together a real-estate deal for a Bootup coworking space in December, but in January - when I assume the funding round fell apart - Boris (Mann) became quite scarce. I'm over it. They took on an uphill battle and are hustling to keep the business alive. I think they deserve credit for surviving when others might have folded. As a member of the Vancouver startup community, I'm happy to still have them around. Anyone who has met Boris or Danny can tell that they are genuine in their passion for entrepreneurship and wouldn't have done this if it wasn't strictly necessary. They also have built a kickass portfolio of companies in a short time.

Perhaps a bit unprofessional, but I'm personally glad it happens. The startup/VC world is all about reputation, and anything which moves the world from "talk to your friends at other startups and find out if they know anything about X" to "google for X and find out what people are saying about it" is a good thing for startups who are less than fully connected in the gossip network. Think of this as the natural continuation of what thefunded started.

Of course, as a Vancouverite I'm sad that it's Bootup Labs which is getting a bad reputation like this. :-/

Honestly, if I where in their situation I probably would have done the same thing, not because I'm dumb or naive or unaware of the risks, but simply because, fuck it, life is too short to always do the dull and sensible thing. And who knows, it might end up being awesome.

Sounds more like the hand that called the dog over with promises of bacon that wasn't there...

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1266864

And they mentioned Robinson's "This is not how it went down" comment without the main substance of his post (which consisted only of small quibbles) -- or the responses to it.

And does the fact that there was a "a heavy hitting roster" backing Bootup make what was done any more excusable?

They're only investors if they actually invest money.

Not exactly solid reporting :(

I'm just in survival mode at the moment, living on my parent's couch at the moment with negative money in my bank account. I need to sell some things to try to get back on my feet again - that's why I'm seeing if I can sell these domains.

Hmm, ok.

Disclosure: Boris Wertz is an investor in Techvibes Media Inc.

Surprise, surprise.

Starting businesses is easy as pie. If you have enough money to sustain the business before it brings in revenue then I'm not sure what the attraction is to these sort of ventures. If your execution is good then VCs will hear you out regardless of whether you've been "accepted" into a program like this. They may facilitate introductions but there are also government funded programs here in Canada that do not charge money which will do the same.

Tax rates for people smart enough to start businesses in Canada are fairly attractive. It is especially so when you factor in healthcare costs or lack-there-of. However one thing to bear in mind is that it is often a severe hassle an American company to exit an investment in a Canadian company. In some cases it would require 900 signatures of limited partners in the American company and for each to file Canadian income taxes. Google "Section 116 foreign investment". It is something the government here is tackling in a bid to spur VC investment in Canada. But there are still some gotchas (and benefits) to starting a company here.

Good luck and is the weather in Phoenix still "100 and above it's a scorcher out there" :) ? You emailed me this summer re: my start-up. Good luck!