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Comment by cmdrfred | Hacker News Reader

Correction: EpiPen Maker Mylan's Shareholders Will Pay $465M to Settle Medicaid Overcharging Case

Yes, that's the idea, the owners of the company are responsible for the company.

Of course, because Mylan is a corporation, the majority of shareholders have limited liability, their largest loss due to the actions of the company would be their investment.

"because Mylan is a corporation"

You say this as if this was always true.

LLC's are a very recent invention. In the past, shareholders and owners of the company were, in fact, liable.

LLCs are newish. U.S. corporations have had limited liability for well over a century.

In a roundabout sort of way. And if you make that assumption, you would have to agree that the shareholders benefited from monopoly pricing for years prior. Any serious investor in pharma is well aware of the risk of the regulatory hammer.

It's not a monopoly. There have been and continue to be other epinephrine auto-injectors from competitors.

Have been, but what else is on the market right now in the US? Why is that? Its not for lack of demand.

The Fda approval favors mylan, making it difficult for others to compete

What does that mean? FDA has approved equivalent products.

Adrenaclick and generic versions of it. It's not a direct substitute, it can't be dispensed to fill an Epipen prescription, but it is the same drug, the same dose, and for the same purpose (emergency administration of epinephrine by lightly trained persons).

http://www.goodrx.com/adrenaclick

If it is the same drug, dose, and usage I must profess a bit of confusion as to what could possibly be preventing it from being a direct substitute.

It's the same purpose, not the same usage. The administration is slightly different, the Adrenaclick injector doesn't have quite as fancy a safety cap and should be held in the thigh for longer.

https://www.epipen.com/about-epipen/how-to-use-epipen

http://adrenaclick.com/how_to_use_adrenaclick_epinephrine_in...

I think there is a legitimate concern about the usage being different, but I'm not sure it should prevent it from being substituted.

Lack of education. Doctors write prescriptions for epipen. If they wrote "epinephrine auto-injector" then people could go to Wal-Mart and buy Adrenaclick.

Perhaps the real problem is Adrenaclick isn't running enough TV commercials.

Here's pricing info in the UK.[1] (Via a proxy site, because HM Government doesn't like access to their pricing data from outside the UK.)

EpiPen® Auto-injector 0.3 mg (delivering a single dose of adrenaline 300 micrograms), adrenaline 1 mg/mL (1 in 1000), net price:

2-mL auto-injector device = £26.45

2 × 2-mL auto-injector device = £52.90

This is the same product from the same vendor as in the US.

[1] https://www.justproxy.co.uk/index.php?q=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ldmlk...

Many have tried to launch competing products, but the FDA had denied all but AdrenaClick.

Thorough explanation and editorilizing here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-dr...

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/th6Ua

http://www.epinephrineautoinject.com/

I don't believe the shareholders committed fraud in purchasing shares, they are punished by the actions of criminals outside of their control. Yet is appears the criminals will go free. If you or I committed $100 Million plus in Medicaid fraud, we would most certainly be in prison. Take back the profits from the shareholders, apply civil asset forfeiture proceedings to the executive staffs assets, and put those responsible in prison.

Criminal is a harsh word. It looks like the government just finally balked at Mylan abusing their position. But shareholders had every opportunity to know what the prices were, and what the regulatory climate was. My opinion is that if you invest in pharma, you should know how the market works, or else you might get a haircut. Sure, Mylan aren't on any moral high ground, but the operate the way you would expect a rational firm to act in the regulatory environment lawmakers have set up. Blame your congressperson, your senator.

If the law allows it, don't expect companies not to do it. And if the law doesn't allow it, but the regulators never drop the hammer, don't expect people not to do it. If the regulators do have the funding to do their job, look to the legislature to find the problem. And if you invest in this kind of business know what you're getting involved in.

>If the law allows it, don't expect companies not to do it.

This is outright fraud. The law does not allow it. They purposefully misrepresented their product for financial gain.

> And if the law doesn't allow it, but the regulators never drop the hammer, don't expect people not to do it.

I'm not saying it isn't fraud. I'm saying that its par for the course when regulators rarely take action. Mylan got greedy and got slapped. Regulatory bodies in the US are woefully underfunded and this sort of thing is the result. Blame congress.

64% of murders currently result in an conviction. At what percentage would it no longer be the perpetrators responsibility for the crime and instead be the fault of the lawmakers lack of ability to bring him to justice?

Well, if only a handful ever get investigated because the police are understaffed... well then follow the funding. You get the regulatory environment you vote for.

You can vote one way and get something else. Your logic does not hold.

That's a straw man (I think)

How do you know it's a murder if there's no conviction? I'm not sure I understand this Stat.

Seems fair, they were the ones who profited from the overcharging.

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