Google Allo a Success or a Failure: Analysis of Data By Region | Hacker News Reader

Google Allo a Success or a Failure: Analysis of Data By Region

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I'm still puzzled and annoyed by Google's random abandonment of so many of their projects, even ones that are heavily used (Reader), often without warning or stated rationale. Honestly I just avoid new Google products because I never know when they'll get randomly abandoned or axed.

The scatterbrain landscape of Google's messaging offerings is just one example of this. GChat, Talk, Hangouts, Messenger, Allo, Duo, Google+ Chat, etc. Can someone explain to me why TF they have so many messaging apps? It's confusing, annoying, and requires too much onramp effort to install yet another messaging app just to talk to friends.

At this point people always retort "Well, Google is a fast-moving development environment! Throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks! Fail fast!" Yeah, sure, that's great and everything, but if they never actually commit to maintaining the things they build, it doesn't matter how cool or innovative $LatestProduct is, because it won't be around long enough for anybody to find out.

Google engineer Barry Schwartz once said:

"In prospect, capability seems way more important than useability. In PRACTICE, the reverse is true."

In Google's case I would extend that to say "reliability and consistency is more important than capability." I don't care what Allo does if I can't trust Google to maintain it for more than few months before unceremoniously dumping it to the side of the road like so many of their other offerings.

At this point everyone I know just uses WhatsApp and is done with it.

edit: Geostyx made a great comment: "Whenever I hear 'Google' my mind goes straight to "thing that will be gone in 18 months""

in retrospect, killing reader was probably the right decision. It seems like RSS was on the way out, anyway.

It may be, but Reader was still a very popular product, as seen by the big fallout over the shutdown.

And not a very complicated product at that. Maintaining it really could not have taken a lot of staff.

I'm pretty sure they wanted to push users over to Google Plus.

Where is the data that proves this? Leaving aside hipster trends (which I don't understand at all these days), what I see is that all the sites I visit, they have RSS/atom option; outside Bloomberg, which is a different story since they provides feeds via proprietary network.

What other tool gives me ability to follow dozens media sources, has offline capability and has dozens of implementations I can choose?

Leaving aside manager/sales talk, I believe they dumped Reader because they couldn't monetize it, just like Code Search.

Conversely, killing off Reader could have been the reason RSS fell away.

Fell away? RSS is an essential part of my life online. It didn't fell anywhere. It works just fine like it always did.

I don't like Facebook, Reader was essentially my social network. All of my friends used it. I think they killed Reader to push users to Google Plus. If they had just built Reader into Google Plus I probably would have used it.

I think part of it is marketing. In practice, Google Hangouts, Google Voice, and Google Chat are the same thing, but they don't always market it as such and it become confusing. I agree with your sentiment that they should focus on one product and do it well, and maybe release other ones to fit other niches if necessary. That way if the new niche product doesn't do well, it's not weird and the core product remains. This is what Facebook does and Messenger is their most popular product by far for phones.

I don't know if many non-tech people really think that Google is unreliable though. HN-ites think that because of the multitude of news we get about any product abandonment and the ones we used to use really sting even to this day (Reader...), but to the average person they don't really know or think that. Instead, they might get the new product if it seems cool, but generally they'll stick with their old messaging app because it works and that's what all their friends use, and so for them to switch requires not trust, because they don't distrust Google, but momentum, which can be difficult.

It really is an analysis of the various regions e.g. Asia, Europe, USA, where Allo was released, and it really is interesting data. It bombed in Asia save for India, and had a lukewarm reception in most other places except parts of the middle east (UAE, Qatar), the USA, and Argentina.

I speculate that it bombed in Asia because Google doesn't understand that market really well; Korea, Japan, and Taiwan already have useful messaging applications that are significantly more popular than any other way of communicating. For example, many people in Korea communicate with their family and friends using Kakao, and in Japan LINE accomplishes the same thing. Why would you switch if you already have a way to message everyone you know?

I would guess actually that is the real reason for lukewarm reception in general: there's no reason to switch if what you have now is good. I have no reason to switch from Messenger, from texting, from Hangouts, to this new offering that may be better but isn't good enough to make me want to switch. I am curious why it is so popular in India and the middle east though.

Yep.

Just as with many products in the recent years, it's just years to late.

What's App is the biggest one in Europe and the US, I guess.

I really don't understand how it wasn't Google, MS or FB who established the first really big messaging app. It seems like such an obvious thing. (What's App also wasn't the first by far, just the one that gained enough traction to lure so many people in).

> I really don't understand how it wasn't Google, MS or FB who established the first really big messaging app.

Remember MSN?

I was talking about mobile, connected to your phone number, a la What's App.

But that's exactly my point. With MSN it would should have been so easy to put out a good mobile app and capture the market.

I agree, to a certain extent. I expect that I will only end up using Allo with my wife and daughter and only when I need to send something encrypted. I can't tell you how many times my wife has asked for the password to something like our bank's page over text. I never send it like that but she does ask...

I'm surprised you think Allo is secure that you can send passwords. With a company who's core business is learning as much about a person to shove ads in their face, I wouldn't be too surprised if Allo messages are logged somewhere so their AI learns to exploit you someday.

Well, at this point I believe that when you use Allo in incognito mode it does end-to-end encryption. You also lose the integration with google assistant at that point.

https://support.google.com/allo/answer/6383724?hl=en

What happens in Incognito mode

You won't be able to preview your message in the Allo conversation list. You'll just see that you or the other person "sent a message."

Notifications won't display who sent the message or its content. If you want to turn off notifications entirely, go to Menu Menu and then Settings and then Notifications. Your chats are end-to-end encrypted and can only be seen by you and the person you're chatting with. Google can't read any of your messages, so you won't see any Smart Reply or Google Assistant features.

When you receive a sticker from a sticker pack that you don’t have, Allo will download it securely from Google’s servers, but without using end-to-end encryption.

Being #1 in India seems like a success in and of itself, considering Allo is entering such a crowded market.

Not anymore. Check out our new data. Just updated the article in the same link.

To be honest every country on earth has a "winning" messaging platform by now, and it seems hard to displaced.

There used to be dominant platforms on desktop messaging, the switch to desktop open the door to new entrants (Whatsapp, LINE), but unfortunately Google lost that battle with Hangout.

The lack of unified SMS integration was a HUGE mistake IMO. As much as these messaging apps want SMS to go away, its not. It is the only common "language" across all devices and providers - not to mention the older generation has no idea WTF all these messaging apps are.

My hope was that Allo was going to fix the disaster of a decision by google to split SMS and Messages apart in Hangouts.

I want one app that supports SMS and messages and I want it web enabled so I can use it from my computer. iMessage has this nailed.

I was a Google Fi customer. Before hangouts separated function I had an awesome cross platform unified messaging experience. I'm switching to iPhone after 7+ yrs on android partially due to this android messaging mess.

SMS was a huge mistake, but by far the least of such mistakes. The BIGGEST, IMO, was not allowing you to sign on from multiple devices, and not having a desktop app. If I can only use messaging on one device, it's just about useless to me in this day and age.

Agreed. iMessage handles this great. I was hoping Allo was the iMessage killer. I'm a google fanboy, and this next gen messaging direction by G is really disappointing

Allo is apparently not meant to compete with iMessage. It's locked to a single handset (you lose everything if you activate on another one) so forget about it working across your devices. It doesn't work on tablets at all. It doesn't support SMS. It seems like a more limited and less convenient WhatsApp competitor.

It's basically useless to anyone that doesn't have other people willing to install yet another chat client in addition to already having Hangouts, Facebook Messenger, Skype, WhatsApp, etc on your phone.

yea I don't want another messaging client. I want less apps, less things. Make me more efficient. Its a shame cuz the assistant in Allo is kick ass.

I think it's a little early to tell whether or not it's a complete failure, it's only been out a couple of weeks.

It certainly hasn't gained traction. In terms of anecdata, I haven't downloaded it for the same reason I don't use G+: no one I know is on it, so why bother? Everyone I know already uses Facebook Messenger, Whatsapp or sometimes Hangouts for IM.

It's also unclear what Allo does that the three mentioned apps above don't do.

And Facebook Messenger provides a nice text messaging interface as well, so it was an obvious switch to unify some of my streams of messaging.

I won't even bother trying it until it has desktop/browser support. Until then, Telegram works amazing and everyone I talk to uses it.

I'm hoping it gets that option soon as well...Currently you aren't even able to set it as your default SMS application either.

You can't use it for SMS because it's not like other SMS apps. When you send an SMS on Allo, it goes through a random relay number controlled by Google, not your number.

Ah I see - I was just looking for a hangouts replacement is all.

Looks like yet another product that Google will abandon quickly due to lackluster interest.

There is absolutely no indication that the people behind Allo will make any effort to mitigate the clear and present problems.

Sure, it has a couple features that stand out, but the shortcomings stick out sharply, notably the pathetic SMS "integration."

It's a chicken and egg problem I think. I'm not going to latch on to Google products because I expect them to just kill it in a couple years anyway.

Google kills products because not enough people use them.

If Google keeps Allo/Duo at the front of their messaging apps, adds desktop support to Allo, and keep improving performance/features for the next 5+ years, then it might actually gain a decent userbase.

I use Telegram right now. It Just Works™ for me and the people I talk to. It's fast, stable, and they keep adding features without it feeling like bloat. I also don't feel like I have to worry about it getting abandoned in the next couple years.

They should really just stop branding the apps as Google, and only come out from behind the curtain if there's traction so as to avoid damaging their brand like this.

This. Whenever I hear "Google" my mind goes straight to "thing that will be gone in 18 months"

> Whenever I hear "Google" my mind goes straight to "thing that will be gone in 18 months"

Exactly. Perfectly said.

I feel the same way. I just don't trust Google anymore, they have an awful track record.

For me it's very simple, I don't NEED a new messenger app, whatsapp and facebook messenger cover pretty much all my needs. I could maybe even do without the latter. The only use I had for SMS in the last couple years is only spam, bank and random two factor auths. I like seeing alternatives tho but there is absolutely nothing in Allo that would attract me. I mean... it does look good but Whatsapp is already good enough. And for someone that spends a significant part of their day in front of the computer desktop integration is a must. I really do not understand why they didn't add it. To be honest, I liked Hangouts.

Agreed on Hangouts. When they removed SMS integration in favor of their new Messenger app, I was saddened. I cannot fathom why they would remove features and retire Hangouts.

The SMS integration is still in Hangouts, it's just not on by default.

I was prompted to install the Messenger app and Hangouts' SMS support was promptly disabled, I thought they removed the feature entirely.

I will be switching back to Hangouts and uninstalling the Messenger app, thank you.

What exactly was the end-user problem in the messaging space that Google was attempting to solve with Allo?

Google did not have a messenger app based on telephone numbers for directory. This method has revealed to be the one that users choose to, rather than hunting for friends using e-mail addresses.

However, Allo is just a Nth iteration of the same thing with a vague promise of cool features through the assistant.

Google assistant. It's designed to streamline the problem of 5 friends trying to decide where to eat brunch on a sunday morning over sms, or anything kind of on the fly logistical problem like that. They do make this pretty apparent in their presentations.

I don't know, man. I've been waiting since I was a kid to see AI, and finally some rough approximation of sci-fi grade AI is starting to materialize. But everywhere in the internet all I hear is 'It's dumb... Who cares... Google doesn't know what they're doing'

I don't know, is me being continually amazed by the services Google offers some kind of character flaw or something? I don't understand.

While this will probably end up being true, it's way too early to call. The Google Assistant in Allo was a pre-release version, the full version is supposed to be released soon as announced yesterday.

i don't understand why allo and duo are separate apps and not just part of the hangouts app. I can't believe that no one at google said, "Isn't it weird that we are releasing two more messaging apps?" so there must be some logic behind it but I can't see it.

Unix philosophy? Have small apps that do one thing well.

Face to face video calling and chatting are very different activities. I would guess that their analysis was that hangout does everything anyone needs and more, but people don't use it because they don't know.

Also it's not as much all or nothing. If I am already using Whatsapp for chat, going to Duo for videocalling is lower friction than going to Hangouts.

My best guess, just from observing Google from the outside, is that they have a real problem doing boring stuff. Maintain something? Boring, won't do it. Fix developer-facing bugs in Android? Boring, won't do it (instead, let it sit ignored for 2 years then inaccurately mark the bug obsolete). Document anything beyond some surface-level relatively-fun-to-write stuff? Boring, won't do it. Update docs? Boring, maybe half-ass it and leave the rest outdated, but don't bother to mark it as such. Nitty-gritty work to really support e.g. Material Design? OMG so boring. Port existing library/SDK to one of our other platforms (I'm looking at you Android Maps API)? Ugh, no, I guess I'll do the minimum possible so I can move on to something more fun. Improve performance on any of our many poorly-performing products? BORING BORING BORING, no.

> By incorporating AI, Google Allo attempts to provide a “superior” chatting experience. It features automated “Smart Replies”, integrated Google Assistant that will answer your questions, and easier ways to express one’s feelings with emojis and pictures.

Is it just me? It seems every time Google and others incorporate "AI" into a product it makes it more awkward to work with. It feels like adding AI these days is only slightly better than "we added a Clippy module". Search seems less direct, more map fails, and asking "ok Google" is a mess.

Has anyone tried Allo and are you able to comment on that "predictive response" or ability to ask the Google AI? Is it well integrated and useful or Clippy-like annoying?

Network Effect? I have another theory.

Allo is #1 in India because a Jared paid people to download it ;)

I appreciate Google not forced all Google customers to install Allo ala Facebook but it's hard not to acknowledge Facebook forcing Messenger on Facebook users didn't achieve their goal of widespread adoption of Messenger.

Facebook Forced you to install messenger? Not only have I not installed facebook messenger, I removed the facebook app and just use the mobile web interface. In chrome for android if I select "Request Desktop Site" I can still get to the messaging part.

Messenger has a billion dau. What are you talking about?

Isn't this the standard with large companies, you just can't innovate. Too many MBAs want to tell you how it should be done.

I also like how AI is now used to describe algorithms, thanks ad wizards.

There is an assertion in the article that I'm not sure about.

"This is most likely because Android in developed markets in Americas and Europe are more updated and are pushing the Google Allo app through automatic downloads."

I really don't think that Allo was automatically pushed to anyone, or maybe only nexus devices which is a really small share of the market.

I'd like to see the author of the article back up the claim.

Isn't this basically the same story we've seen with Google and social ten times now? They really want to be a part of this space.

yeah, and basically the reason why they want to buy twitter. and if they do, probably another bust, especially at this price.

Maybe if they worked to improve what they have instead of constantly scrapping everything and restarting, it would help.

Just add Google Assistant and easier searching/inserting to Hangouts. Add phone number sign-up too. Or, hell, just make Allo Hangout-compatible so people can switch to the "new" app still talk to their friends that are on the other network.

So it's the Google+ of chat. It has one or two neat things, but there's no killer feature that will drive adoption. In the end, the things it does right are far outweighed by the features it's missing that people expect (multiple devices, a desktop app, etc).

Odd that the article suggests Allo is a competitor to Facebook. Messenger perhaps, but Facebook overall?

Either way, I use Google accounts for almost everything but I still haven't downloaded Allo, because I still don't see any reason why I should.

I think "Facebook" here means "Whatsapp", which is owned by Facebook.

We actually just updated our article with latest data in October. It looks WAY worse for every single country.

As predicted. There already are WhatsApp, WeChat and Facebook Messenger. All these apps combine chat and video chat in one. And Google wants us to install two apps.

Is it just me or has Google done basically no advertising for Allo?

they've done so much pr for this tho

They have a weird way to introduce new products.

1) they make some PR event, to create hype.

2) Then, they will say, that the product will be released later (in the case of Allo, they didn't even provide a specific date).

3) Then, the product is released, but in the staged way. You may or may not be able to download, as it will be fully available 'in the coming weeks'.

4) During these few weeks, you will forget, that there is a such product and when it is finally available to you, you won't bother.

So after all, the outlined steps are a good way to kill any hype the PR event from step 1 was able to create.

I actually updated our article with new data from October. It looks WAY worse for every single country.

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