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Comment by AmVess | Hacker News Reader

MS has really gone downhill over the past few years with badly designed software and shockingly broken patches. The anniversary update set all the permissions in my registry so it couldn't be written to, and there was no way to fix it.

On another machine, all the network interfaces vanished with no way of restoring them.

These are complete show stoppers on machines I use to make money. I loaded Win8.1 on all machines and will never touch W10.

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Honestly, most software development has been going noticeably down hill the last couple years from Microsoft, Google, and Apple. It's understandable from Google whose business is ads (90% of their revenue) and makes software to drive ads. And it would even be a bit excusable for Apple given that Apple is primarily a hardware company. But Microsoft is a software company. Yes, they're dabbling in hardware a bit, but their revenue is software.

>MS has really gone downhill over the past few years with badly designed software and shockingly broken patches.

Well...

(2014) http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-employees-still-lik...

"Inside Microsoft, test engineers across the company, particularly in the Windows unit, were the hardest hit [by the layoffs], our source said. ... Now, the testing job is part of the development team similar to how other big software companies do things."

(2014) http://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-emplo...

"Under the new structure, a number of Windows engineers, primarily dedicated testers, will no longer be needed. (I don't know exactly how many testers will be laid off, but hearing it could be a "good chunk," from sources close to the company.)"

If you don't have testers your users become testers. Microsoft is learning this fact the hard way.

Maybe they think they can get away with because their only competition (MacOS) is heading in the same direction. Both OSs peaked somewhere around 2010. Since then, MS has focussed on using their desktop OS to collect data and Apple has been focussed on using their desktop OS to prop up their mobile OS.

Using both reasonably frequently, I really don't see how you think they're moving in the same direction. MacOS still leaves the user in full control if they wish, while Windows forces ridiculous hoops to disable things that should be a stock setting using regedit which most users would and should never touch. Outside of "they both have voice assistants now" I see no similarities. And I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features."

I think you misread my post. In both cases, the user experience of the desktop OS has gotten worse because all of the changes the parent company have made to the OS have been to support their larger business objectives at the expensive of this specific product.

In MS's case they've been focussed on data collection. In Apple's case, they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices. As someone who doesn't want MS collecting my data and has no intention of ever going back to Apple's mobile devices, I would prefer either product as it existed circa 2010.

I'm not sure how that led you to the conclusion that I think Apple will add ads to their OS, but that definitely isn't what I meant to imply.

You are implying that Apple added absolutely nothing to macOS since 2010 that wasn't useful to desktop-/laptop-only users, or that there've been glaring omissions of functionality since 2010 which they haven't addressed or aren't about to address, without giving any examples of either. Heck, they just announced a new and modern filesystem! Coming next year! [1] What about systemwide support for Wide Color? [2]

It's a free OS, it gets major updates every year and minor ones every few months.

Even if the spotlighted features of every release (like Siri this year) aren't exactly appealing to you personally, what most people seem to overlook — odd for a place like Hacker News — is that every release of macOS also includes many new native APIs for developers. Not to mention subtle new accessibility features, which most of us may hopefully never need but it's nice to know they are there for the people who do need them.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/a-zfs-developers-analys...

[2] https://webkit.org/blog/6682/improving-color-on-the-web/

I think your post demonstrates my point. My user experience on the Mac has not been improved by a file system that hasn't been released yet. It hasn't been improved by developer APIs or obscure accessibility features I don't have a use for.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and the vast majority of Mac users are having a better experience today because they use those developer APIs and write CSS that needs obscure colors and use that unreleased file system daily, but I don't think that's the case.

The APIs enable developers to make better apps for you and other users; they are obviously not meant to be showcased as an end user feature. However, if you have obscure requirements that aren't being met by the OS or third-parties, you can just make your own apps, for free.

You are being adamantly hyperbolic about stagnation and "mobile-ification" but you still haven't given any example of how the "desktop OS has gotten worse because they've been focused on cross-selling their mobile devices."

Personally I started using Macs in 2011, with Lion, after a lifetime of Windows (and before that, DOS) and every new release since then has only made the Mac experience better for me;

The App Store model is a boon for desktop OSes (although the current implementation definitely needs improvement) and you can still get apps from other sources. Natural Scrolling is amazing, and really does feel natural. I like all alerts being grouped up in one place in the Notification Center. Pressing F4 for the Launchpad is a quick alternative to opening the Applications folder, and usually quicker than Spotlight. I like iMessage and FaceTime and they don't require an iPhone or iPad. Safari always feels snappier than Chrome. 3D/Force-Touch to preview links without opening a new page is very handy, especially on places like Reddit and HN. The OS is still customizable in all the ways I care about, and nicely extended by apps like TinkerTool [1] and Path Finder [2]. ...

I really can't think of any examples where I felt macOS had gotten "worse" than a preceding release because of features borrowed from iOS, or that Apple had betrayed me and made me want to go back to Windows.

[1] https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html

[2] http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/

I have been on Macbook Pro's since 10.5 and I completely agree with GP. OSX peaked at Snow Leopard, there is no question in my mind. It seems like nearly every new feature in each OSX release now is something to do with iOS. OSX's software quality has been trending downwards for a while now, I don't think I am alone in that opinion. MBP hardware used to make the software issues less irritating, but even that is starting to feel hopelessly dated.

OSX has lost a lot of its appeal IMO, I am replacing my MBP this month with an windows machine.

> I'm certain you will never see ads in MacOS as part of the OS "features."

How certain?

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...

Uh oh... Please please let this be a defensive patent to use against other OSes which include ads, and not an indication of a future macOS/iOS to come..

This MAY make sense in tvOS, to present ads during a "channel" app while "disabling certain operating system features", but I really hope Apple of all companies aren't that greedy for extra revenue to include ads in macOS/iOS..

The patent filing is also dated 2008, and nothing's happened so far.

>MS has focussed on using their desktop OS to collect data

If by "collect data" you mean the OS telemetry that's used to detect and report bugs, that's right. Thurott even mentions the telemetry in the article.

If you turned off Windows telemetry, MS has no way of knowing about any bugs you encountered. Those who don't vote, don't get to complain about the consequences of not voting.

The Anniversary Update is currently the Current Branch. From Microsoft's own documentation - The CB servicing model is ideal for pilot deployments and testing of Windows 10 feature updates and for users such as developers who need to work with the latest features immediately. In contrast, the CBB servicing branch is typically used for broad deployment. Windows 10 clients in the CBB servicing branch receive the same build of Windows 10 as those in the CB servicing branch, just at a later time. CB releases are transitioned to CBB after about 4 months, indicating that Microsoft, independent software vendors (ISVs), partners, and customers believe that the release is ready for broad deployment. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/manage/waa...

Considering we are only two months past the release of AU, I would consider it to be in the pilot not stable deployable phase.

If you want Windows to be stable, and you dont want to be a beta tester, go to Windows Update advanced settings settings and check Defer feature updates.

It's the same pattern Microsoft has always taken, just accelerated. Vista was released to consumers so their Enterprise release of Windows 7 was adequately tested across as many hardware and software scenarios as possible.

I really like win8.1.

I dislike win10 so much, not only it contains so many bugs, but also I don't like the UI change.

I'd say: fork the old UI and use it instead of the new one. But that's something you'd do on Linux, not on Windows I guess...

That is why I use mate desktop on debian now, for I also don't like the gnome3 UI.

I must say it is the other way round for me. The latest Windows is the best release since Windows 7. Windows 8(.1) seemed like an alpha version of the current OS (I just say: power off button).

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