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>Blackberry needs to target them.

Why? Dumb phones are more or less a commodity - margins are tiny, and volumes are likely small.

If Blackberry lost at the high-end smartphone game, then switching to enterprise security or whatever they're working on makes way more sense than shipping a few hundred thousand units of $100 dumb phones.

If you read my full post, I'm arguing for them to change the paradigm of the "dumb phone." A dumb phone as it stands now is a commodity. I'm arguing that there exists an untapped market of people who want a hybrid, capable of filling the multi-functional tool role of a smartphone WITHOUT the focus on social media, video, music, and other entertainment roles.

Why do I need to buy a flagship smartphone to get the best camera? Why do I need to buy a smartphone to get group messages? Why do I need to buy a smartphone to use my phone as a flashlight or navigate with Google Maps? Why do I need to buy a smartphone to type on an intuitive keyboard?

I'm not a teenager. I want a productivity device, not a gaming system or a miniature television or a twitter feed.

There's already a pretty wide spectrum of smart phones on the market. You don't have to spend half your monthly income on a handset to get navigation, messaging, etc.

True, but then you sacrifice other features in the package. You can't pay with NFC on a cheap phone. The cameras suck on cheap phones. The screen quality sucks. The build quality sucks. There are tradeoffs if you just go cheap.

I would pay flagship prices for a hybrid phone that focused on productivity and ignored entertainment.

Android and Apple do also focus on productivity as well as entertainment. It sounds like what you're asking for is basically a high end phone but only supporting a subset of apps and a slide out keyboard. This sounds like commercial suicide in my opinion.

As much as I'd love to see more handsets with physical keyboard, they never seem to sell well enough for manufacturers to invest in releasing more models. And I really don't know where you would draw the line with which apps to allow and which not to. There'll always be someone with slightly different requirements who would refuse to buy the handset because application x or y wasn't available.

I just can't see how your preferences would equate to a big enough market for Blackberry to make any money.

> "As much as I'd love to see more handsets with physical keyboard, they never seem to sell well enough for manufacturers to invest in releasing more models."

Because like the Priv, they attach keyboards to massive screens. Those screens aren't necessary in a productivity phone. They make it unwieldy and ridiculous to use. The form factor of a Blackberry Classic is all you need, just integrate with Android.

The form factor of a Blackberry Classic is all you need, just integrate with Android.

I think you just inadvertently highlighted why that business model would be so difficult.

I was almost 100% with you in this thread until that point. I too would like to have a modern phone with a good hardware spec that is primarily a communications tool and personal organiser, rather than an entertainment product. I would like good battery life, security, privacy, and a convenient, robust design that fits in my hand and my pocket. I don't see any phone on the market today that is anywhere close to meeting my ideal requirements.

But then you mentioned Android, and for me that would immediately raise security and privacy issues because of all the Google integration.

I'd be perfectly happy with a Blackberry Classic running BB10 OS. I just really like Google's productivity apps and would miss them a great deal.

Fair enough. :-)

I just paid $25 shipped for a lumia 920 off ebay recently. If the above are your requirements, you may want to take a look.

So just buy a flagship phone, and don't install the things you don't need.

Have you actually tried buying a flagship phone that doesn't do things like phoning home to Google or Apple lately? It is absurdly difficult to buy and set up any modern smartphone so it is reasonably secure and private and it just functions as a good phone with some extra connectivity.

Even for geeks like the HN crowd it's difficult to determine reliably what is really happening on your device and what you can trust, and the average customer has no chance whatsoever. Thus we see the kind of sentiment that started this discussion, where some people want to get away from the mess and the creepy factor and go back to having a device that just worked.

This is completely off topic, and they weren't looking to get away from the "mess and creepy factor", they were concerned about the temptation of installing Facebook.

If you really think that security and privacy are off-topic in a discussion about wanting a phone with a focus on useful productivity functions rather than entertainment apps, I think you're missing one of the main reasons for smartphone fatigue. camelNotation themselves mentioned the desire for high security, right there in the top comment that started this thread.

If you're really that upset about it, then make your own. Go on Kickstarter, and raise the money to build one. You should receive plenty of backing.

After you.

Personally, I just use a "feature phone" and avoid the smartphone game today. I get to make calls, I pay hundreds of pounds less per year, and I only have to charge the battery every few days.

I was just agreeing with another poster that there is a market out there for something beyond that without going to the full smartphone-and-apps, entertainment-device model. I have enough businesses already without starting another one for this, but if anyone did want to, I'd be an interested potential customer, is all I'm saying.

"After you."

I'm not the one complaining that there isn't a phone catered to me.

"I was just agreeing with another poster that there is a market out there for something beyond that without going to the full smartphone-and-apps, entertainment-device model. "

There really isn't, though.

Get rid of the camera too.

Having an integrated camera got me used to taking more pictures, but now I use an actual camera 99% of the time.

You know installing or using Twitter or Facebook on Your phone is not mandatory.

Use a Windows Phone.

It's almost everything that you are looking for, except for the physical keyboard. The Lumia line has some pretty good phones and you get all the basics of a modern smartphone (good cameras, email, browser, GPS, etc.) but the app store doesn't have a lot of apps to distract you.

+1

My Lumia 735 does all the modern basics very well and everything I need in a phone. But the App store is like a ghost town so very little to distract you. It has some popular apps, but even then they not updated or poorly done to same ones on iOS/Droid.

I am coming from two years with a Blackberry Z10 myself and using WM10 now for 6 months has pleasantly made me a believer in it. It is simple, smooth and pretty well thought out. I am really surprised it doesn't gain more ground, but the world is all about APPS rather than the technical merits of the OS (otherwise BB10 would have become more popular).

The WM10 virtual keyboard is the best stock i've used and even beats the 3rd party ones i've tried on droid. It has awesome word prediction and built in swipe typing for those that prefer that. Cortana is VERY well done and again easily competes with Siri (I've actually had to whip out my phone a few times to quickly just find what my wife was asking for on her iPhone). Edge browser is fast and nimble (plus will be getting extensions soon I hope). Maps also is good enough. But best feature, to me, is how well WM10 ties into your Microsoft life; Office/Outlook plus Onedrive.

Just go through the settings to turn off any privacy stuff you may have concern with and it is a good modern phone for someone like me who has zero social media life other than texts. You can also get even a flagship phone used pretty cheap now as well. I am looking forward to the new Surface phone.

So you're asking for a smartphone without apps. Try locking your playstore.

Just out of curiosity, why can't you uninstall the apps that you deem unproductive or distracting? I have uninstalled all the social, distracting, unproductive apps from my smartphone. Granted, most smartphones don't have keyboards. Other than that you should be ok with a smartphone.

There's a difference between "impossible to install" and "must restrain self from installing".

Not OP, but I'm guessing that's where they're coming from. I've had situations where "impossible" was significantly more productive for me than "difficult".

What you described there is a middle ground few people want. Those that buy "dumb" phones do so because they want to uncomplicate the basics. eg a real keypad for dialing. Those that want GPS, a web browser and group messaging want a smart phone.

The simplest solution if you don't want social networks et al is to just not install them. Or if you want to avoid "app hell" is to not install mobile apps for websites. These days the only 3rd party apps I commonly use is Google Authenticator, Facebook, Subsonic and LG TV Remote (I have a 2 year old so my actual TV remote often becomes an item of folklore). Even in the case of YouTube I often find myself using the YouTube mobile website instead of the app.

I'm not sure why it makes more sense for a company like ZTE or OnePlus to sell a handful of cheap flagships as opposed to one of these smaller firms producing the hybrid niche device I describe.

I think you answered your own question when you said "niche device". Cheap flagships would naturally have a bigger market than an expensive smartphone with crippled app support.

I don't think you understand the market I'm describing.

So don't download games and social media.

The Good Lord gave you free will, exercise it.

Couldn't you just not install those apps you don't want?

There are millions, maybe hundreds of millions of feature phones of every type out there that you can get for pennies, used, in fine condition. Many times more than there are buyers for those phones. There is no reason to make a new feature phone for the developed world market. I have a shoebox full of them.

Anybody can escape app hell. Just don't download apps. Whatever happened to self restraint and discipline? It's like saying I'm gonna throw my TV out because I'm watching too much tv. The correct solution is watch less tv.

> Blackberry needs to target them

We have a failing hardware business, so lets fix that by targeting a small market segment which also happens to have nothing to do with our core business.

Makes sense.

Why would that be any better than just buying a regular smartphone, and not installing apps?

Further, while you say you'd pay them a lot of money, I really doubt anyone else would.