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Comment by spacehome | Hacker News Reader

I never quite understood that lawsuit. The volunteers understood that they weren't being paid when they signed up for the gig, right?

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Did you read the link? They were compensated (with free internet access) in return for which they had to undergo training, work for a set number of hours, fill in timecards, etc. It sounds like it was a part-time job in all but name.

Except they knew it upfront. ...which I would argue would be the relevant criteria.

Signing up for unpaid community duties and then trying to pressure myself into a job does not feel honest to me, at all.

It wasn't unpaid community duties, it was compensated work that provided value to a corporation. IANAL, but I think the premise is that, as far as employment law is concerned, they were already in a job.

Competitor Group are being sued in a class action lawsuit [0] by a road race volunteer claiming that volunteers were actually laborers being exploited by the defendant and in breach of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

Competitor Group argued for dismissal but their arguments were denied and the case is moving forward. So the courts will decide if, despite "knowing upfront" that they were volunteering, such "work" constitutes "labor". This could have a huge impact at (for-profit) races all over the country that rely on unpaid volunteers, not to mention other for-profit entities use of "volunteers", including YouTube/Google.

[0] http://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...

To enforce a minimum wage, you have to guarantee that people actually get paid at all. So in general, unless you're running a non-profit, you will have a really hard time legally with unpaid volunteers. If you don't mandate wages for employees, you have companies exploiting weaker people for their work, often under misleading pretenses.

> I never quite understood that lawsuit. The volunteers understood that they weren't being paid when they signed up for the gig, right?

You don't understand people fighting for their rights? but I'm sure you do understand corporation exploiting them. There is no "signing up" when the deal is both illegal and unfair. Marx theories didn't go away because some people deemed them irrelevant. Ironically, in this era of political correctness where people apply Marxism to culture and speech instead of economy and workers rights, they should better remember what it is all about at first place and how they are being tricked into fighting useless fights. Your comment can't be more relevant, actually...

Not an expert, but I am pretty sure that the idea to make non-paid, voluntary work that is inspired by a sense of community illegal to strengthen some 21. century understanding of workers rights is the straight up opposite of a Marxist utopia.

I think the key is

> There is no "signing up" when the deal is both illegal and unfair.

If behaviour does conflict with lawyers or philosophers opinion, individual autonomy is to be stripped. (Therefore no agreeing, signing up, etc.) If those people disagree, people are just exploited socketpuppets for a political agenda. Maybe that's Marxist cynicism.

Can I volunteer to coach my son's little league team and then after the fact argue that I should get paid?

> You don't understand people fighting for their rights?

Are or should those be their rights? If I _voluntarily_ step into a volcano should that volcano be liable for my actions?

It's hard to sue a volcano, but you can be arrested for attempted manslaughter if you fail...

Suicide is not legal.

> Suicide is not legal.

Where?

Check out Wikipedia's chart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#Laws_in_in...

Now, I overstated its ilegality in most cases, but the reality is that you actually have remarkably little choice when it comes to waiving all of your rights away. Try to volunteer for a medical procedure which is governed by, but not yet been approved by, the FDA.

Allowing people to "volunteer" for work in any condition for a for-profit company is also a very slippery slope. It would allow corporations to get around minimum wages, benefits, taxes... you name it. Not allowing volunteers is much better than allowing corporations to erode our rights as a workforce.

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