Apple applies to patent a paper bag with at least 60% post-consumer content | Hacker News Reader

Apple applies to patent a paper bag with at least 60% post-consumer content

appft.uspto.gov

87 pointsprostoalex64 comments

It looks like the novel things that they're claiming for are probably lines 0025-0027, and then later lines going into more detail on those:

"Generally, the greater the proportion of post-consumer content in white or SBS paper, the weaker the paper (e.g., the paper will more easily tear (including scoring or cracking)). For this reason, conventional bags formed of SBS paper are made with 50% or less post-consumer content (usually 40% or less) ... To strengthen areas of the bag container, such as folds or gussets at its corners or edges, ... reinforcement inserts ... formed of the same material as the bag container ... can augment the strength and resistance to tearing of the bag container material to make it structurally suitable for use as a bag, thereby increasing the amount of post-consumer content usable ... Typical paper handles are stiff and inflexible; these qualities contribute to a rough, unfinished feel. ... the bag handle may be formed to have a feel and flexibility unlike that typical of paper ... To effect this feel and flexibility, the handle may be formed of knitted paper fibers in a tight-knit pattern with a large diameter. For example, the handle may be formed in an 8-stitch circular-knit pattern"

It may be that plenty of other bag manufacturers are doing the same thing, but it generally seems like a good idea. Novel enough to patent? I have no idea.

They can only claim things in the claims section. The two independent claims are #1 and #13. The description is mostly fluff - they really are just attempting to patent a 60% recycled white bag.

Someone called "TD-Linux" has irrational hate Apple...

This is why the Linux user community has such a bad rap.

I've seen paper bags already of similar design. USPTO is likely going to grant the patent anyways, even if it is just to patent all bags with atleast 60% recycled material.

They could have atleast nailed some of the metrics down, it can be so absurd how the patent system works in the US.

It is difficult to know who to fault, Apple, or the USPTO.

Edit: I think it was a bag to hold one of those fancy, hand made jam and jar, but it was dark brownish. They probly swiped the design from one of those types. Apple is notorious for swiping design and elements.

"Apple is notorious for swiping design and elements" They even patented swipe to unlock, probably swiped that one too.

This seems like a lot of work for something that seems little more than greenwashing: unless the "reinforcement inserts" are less than a third of the total weight a reinforced 60% recycled content bag would contain just as much non-recycled paper (aka trees) as a 40% recycled content bag without the inserts.

This is a patent application that pretty much has 0% chance of being accepted as-is. What will happen is the filer will play the game with the patent examiner where they move dependent claims into the independent claim until it's just enough to squeeze by.

Correct. The title should be changed to state it is an application, not a patent.

Thank you. HN allows title changes for a brief period, so I squeezed it in.

It's almost like they've done this before. [1] Probably a bag for use at Cafe Macs or Retail or both.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20120024859?pg=PA1&dq=Longo...

Sounds like someone told an Apple exec they can't innovate their way out of a paper bag and they took it way too literally.

Can some one apply for a patent for toilet paper made out of at least 60% post consumer content where by the content is made of printouts of Apple patent applications?

Reminds me a prank made during TPP negotiations, where toiler paper with TPP text was placed in the location.

> Can some one apply for a patent for ...

Answer: As long as they are willing to pay the fee, yes. You can substitute anything for "...". All that is required is a willingness to write out the required documents, fill out the forms, and fork over some money for the fee.

Now, whether what they apply for eventually gets approved to become a patent, that is a different story.

Until then you can print 'patent pending' on your product/website.

Serious question: What benefits or protections do you get from putting that on your products?

Enhanced damages for infringement in a later enforcement action upon grant of the patent.

What is post-consumer content?

Recycled from consumer receptacles, as opposed to e.g. trimmings from manufacturing.

re-cycled/recovered materials

I was wondering that myself. I'm sure this is wrong, but I want to believe it's what food sometimes becomes after being eaten. In which case this is a patent filing for a barf bag.

From the looks of it, paper.

60% of it having come from some family somewhere that's keen on recycling.

Funny, where I live all paper is de facto recycled.

> where I live

Where is that?

Finland.

They had to find something to do with all the old batteries.

Wait but why? Are they using this for their next generation iPhone packing (wastage as it is otherwise called)

Traditionally Apple Stores used a plastic bag [1]. For environmental reasons they are moving to a paper bag made mostly of recycled content. As is normal with Apple, they are spending a great deal of energy making sure this new form of packaging is both aesthetically pleasing and functional. On the functional end of that, they seem to be making significant effort to make it sturdy.

I don't know that the sturdiness-enhancing design justifies a patent, but I do think it is reasonable to acknowledge that Apple has put a lot of effort into it.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/04/04/apple-paper-retail-store-bags...

Either way, Samsung will have their 60% post-consumer bag on the market before Apples.

With an additional differentiation being that not only is it 61% post-consumer paper waste, but it spontaneously doubles as a heating source without user intervention!

but with slightly different corners.

Apple's won't catch fire.

Relax, they are patenting their design of a paper bag — the style, the type of handle, the type of material, how it folds.

There are images to clarify this.

Any bets that this document was not made in iWork?

Yes, it was probably made on LaTeX, so what?

Pro tip: The image is in the pdf when you click "Images" at the top.

You can then confirm that the bag has nothing special.

Thanks, the Images button wasn't obvious to me, seems to be part of the main menu

Sounds like the Apple Package Design department got dinged by corporate for not having enough patents this year.

"Umm, ok guys, what the hell can we write up as patent so we get our bonuses this year?"

Mushroom Packaging plz.

No 3.5mm port :(

This handle was still available when you registered?

Strange too that they only recently started commenting..

Though I guess it's not surprising 'stonetear' isn't on HN -- he wouldn't have acted the way he did were he.

edit: see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12535872

What are you talking about?

I just signed up to ask some questions about MS Exchange earlier today.

My boss has been breathing down my neck about some emails.

We've banned this account for trolling.

so innovative

Apple is officially a law office. RIP.

Thankfully the numeral system was invented before patents. And humans learned to walk.

Imagine paying a royalty for walking or counting.

Patents are only valid for 20 years. That is short enough that even if the patent system did predate numerals and walking, these patents would have long since expired.

Was the inventor from Michigan State or Clemson?

Existing product: 50% post-consumer content bags

New idea: 60% post-consumer content bags

Existing product: 8 minute abs

New idea: http://bit.ly/2d025ZJ

Hrm, how exactly is it novel? Paper bags from recycled materials are known for years. Sounds like another attempt to patent sliding locks or rounded corners. Instead of patenting stuff Apple should do something useful.

You ask how is it novel? Looking at the patent application, the "novel" part is that "conventional bags formed of [recycled] paper are made with 50% or less post-consumer content", but claim one covers "a bag container formed of white paper with at least 60% post-consumer content". Supposedly they had to do non-obvious things (the other claims) to make a 60% bag strong enough. Also they have a drooping, thick handle of 8-stitch knitted paper to avoid a "rough, unfinished feel".

On the one hand, it looks like Apple put a lot of work into this bag design and doesn't want it ripped off. On the other hand, it looks like a collection of reinforcements and features that are probably pretty obvious. (Although I don't have "ordinary skill in the art" of bag making, so who am I to say.)

Presumably the 'novelty' lies in the specificity of the bag's design. But even there, it is hard to see--it is not as if bags with loop handles, cardboard stiffeners, and so on, did not already exist. One wonders how close another bag would have to be to 'infringe'. But I like this bit:

"Bags are often used for containing items. "

"Since an item carried within bag 100 will typically apply force to bag 100 at bottom panel 212, due to the gravitational attraction of the item to the earth, areas near the bottom of bag 100 may be most susceptible to tearing."

"...an item carried within bag 100 will typically apply force to bag 100 at bottom panel 212, due to the gravitational attraction of the item to the earth..."

I wonder more what goes through the mind of those who create such patents to begin with... They really have nothing better to do, or they are intentional parasites?

> Hrm, how exactly is it novel?

It's not. This is just a patent application. All that was needed to get this far was to 1) write some documents and fill out some forms 2) pay a fee.

Patents are granted to novel ideas. It should be novel if you are applying for one.

Well, yes, but there's no filtering for 'novelty' on that portion of the process. So you, provided you want to pay the fee, can apply for anything, novel or not.

If it is not novel, then you should never receive a patent on it, but that does not stop you from trying by sending in the paperwork.

"A retail paper bag, comprising: a bag container formed of white paper ..."

Really, when I started reading this I first checked if this was some kind of late April fool's joke.

But no, it looks real :P

Why not apply for this, Apple:

"A wheel, comprising: something round ..."

Attention: Will "KORINEK Michael; (San Francisco, CA) (Sr. Packaging Product Design Engineer at Apple) WHANG; Eugene Antony; (San Francisco, CA) (Number of Co-Patents with Jonathan Ive: 321+) SHAFFER; Benjamin Andrew; (San Jose, CA)" (Former Nike design director Ben Shaffer) Please report to the principal's office for a public shaming? Thank you.

Hopefully when they're done with this project they can return their resources to their NYC Google Express service and stop forcing customers to order their food and water to arrive only within 8am-10pm periods instead of the previous 3 or 4-hour periods, making GExpress practically useless to the biggest city in the country

What does Google Express have to do with a patent filed by Apple?

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