Comment by gbraad | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gbraad | Hacker News Reader

Guanxi is a concept that most foreigners will never completely grok. It is not only about relationship. Most foreigners call it even the G-word when spoken about. It is different how we see relationships being maintained. There is a lot more play and rituals involved.

It differs how much it influences daily interactions, citywide or regionally. In Beijing it is noticeable in a lesser degree, but often is perceived by outsiders/foreigners as 'bribing' when a small present is involved.

Edit: I do not mean anything bad. I have lived in Beijing, China for many years (married to a Chinese). Just some foreigners have more difficulty to understand this (as the reasoning why they call it the G-word). I hate to call this a 'cultural difference', as I believe it is mostly related to misunderstanding. This is all due to a different upbring, in a different environment (and receiving a different sense of what is common). This can often lead to misunderstandings as people perceive the actions in the wrong way. It might help to have a look at Cultural Dimensions [https://docs.com/gerard-braad/1061/cultural-dimensions-asia]. This explains some of the things involved. Just a translating it to 'relationship' does not mean it has the same meaning. Many words and concepts are different between cultures. TL;DR It is definitely not the negative words mentioned below. Just 'smoothing' a relationship which seems beneficial should not be seen as brown-nosing. Above; hyh1048576 explained it very well. People blame themselves if they got rejected for something... others might judge them as saying they haven't put enough 'effort' into it. When the relation seems beneficial, they will try to do something to 'smoothing' the relationship. But as mentioned, in Beijing this happens in a much lesser degree but not invisible.

I'm genuinely asking as a Chinese guy: How is it difficult to grok? There's nothing mystical about 'guanxi'. It is literally the Mandarin translation of "relationship", nothing more.

There's nothing uniquely Chinese about the notion that having strong relationships with the right people can make your life easier.

I would reduce to a stream of words -- boot-licking, toady, lackey, stooge, sycophantic, brown-nose.

I can definitely understand ladder-climbing in the workplace but there are countless instances of people acting without dignity or restraint. It's downright unsightly.

> I would reduce to a stream of words

Thus proving gbraad's point?

Guanxi is not those things you mentioned. Incidentally, it's not something that is difficult for foreigners to grok - they just need to have some exposure and experience with it.

How do you build guanxi?

It depends. Often it's by going to school with people, or having an uncle who went to school with someone, or similar.

Maybe it's by taking people out to dinner and getting drunk with them, building up a certain type of camaraderie.

Othertimes it's outright bribery.

But this sort of thing:

> boot-licking, toady, lackey, stooge, sycophantic, brown-nose.

Rarely works to develop good guanxi.

Alright then, I guess we can describe it flatly as nepotism with Chinese characteristics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_charact...

"When in Rome" and "know thy enemy" makes sense but the tasteless passion that people have for blatant cronyism is quite unpleasant.

This may also be of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasta

Nepotism and cronyism are definitely things that can arise out of Guanxi, but aren't the only things Guanxi covers.

There's nothing uniquely Chinese about the notion that having strong relationships with the right people can make your life easier.

In Germany we have "Vitamin B", i.e. beneficial relationships. In America, on the other hand, they have this strange concept of meritocracy.

> In Germany we have "Vitamin B", i.e. beneficial relationships. In America, on the other hand, they have this strange concept of meritocracy.

American is the land of legal lobbying. I'd say this is pretty close to that concept too.

It is all about cultural aspects and how actions are perceived by the other party.

Having a good relationship is important. Giving a token of appreciation is accepted and often expected?

Consider a student who studies abroad and gives such a token to his professor. Totally unaware that a few days later he gets dismissed from the university for bribing. (Or involves a lot of back and forth between the universities to explain the behaviour. This is something we have seen many times)

Now let's look at the foreign manager working in China. Building relationships by exchange of a businesscard is normal. A small gift, like a pen is accepted. But he doesn't know how to respond to a situation when some rituals are involved; such as paying for a dinner. But often relationships extend beyond a business situation and people can ask you for a small 'favour' that is unrelated to business... but can put someone in a very awkward position, as it does influence further business (and often complicates it). Managers who go abroad are sometimes even warned about this when going here. Note: which I believe is also bad as it creates a stigma and prevents from understanding it. Maybe after a few months he understands more of it, but he will likely ignore the reasoning or the actual intent. But again, this is not specific to China (happens in most Asian countries and the West or anywhere else in some form or way).

Agree with you, this is one of the "myth" about China. It seems particularly mysterious to North Americans, but in old Europe everyone knows that the bosses of the big corporations play golf together every sunday and solve their problems informally, opening the way to more formal, contractual procedures. They will also meet regularly with men of power, and get the temperature.

It also work at a much lower level: if you have good "guanxi" with the boss of the abr in front of your door and often brings friends, he will be nice and, say, call you if the cops are coming when your car is not correctly parked.

Also, if you build your own house, some neighbourghs might play it nice and allow you to use a bit of the public road to stock piles of brick or whatever.

All of these mean we are not wild beast living in the forest, neither are we cowboys, we have a to live in a society and having good relationships with anyone around you (upwards, downwards and at the same level) is very desirable.

It's a combination of things that are common to human society. The word refers to a specific group of human interaction strategies, methodologies, and tactics. Its uniqueness lies in its emphasis on specific areas that may or may not have equal importance in a different society with different culture.

I do not think it's particularly more difficult to grok than any other Chinese words or concept that represent non-trivial aspects of Chinese society and culture.

+1 > non-trivial aspects of Chinese society and culture

From a Chinese friend. Today when he noticed I knew a lot of his foreign colleagues;

http://i.imgur.com/8XvwPnl.jpg

"I like to do things in the formal way. Utilizing the Chinese Guan Xi method is limited to direct contact only. Unless I have no other ways to make things happen. I do like to keep simply relationship with others, instead of a GuanXi just for profit"

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