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Comment by eganist | Hacker News Reader

Sure. Tons of revelations on actual clandestine activities (think ops NSA ran against other nation states, not US citizens, and not even US citizens indirectly) were compromised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure...

That's a mishmash of disclosures including those Snowden claimed to focus on, but there are plenty stemming from the Snowden leaks which had to do with run of the mill intercepts against foreign states and even against allies (because allies spy on allies all the time, let's be honest).

Whether "vast majority" is true isn't something I can say because I personally haven't actually read the leaks themselves, but it wouldn't surprise me given that most of the news after the big US revelations were all about NSA activities outside the US against non-US persons.

I won't bring my own opinion into this, but given my reply, it's probably fairly easy to discern what I think should(n't) be done here.

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I'd say the most important part of this statement:

> Rather than avail himselfofthe many lawful avenues to express legal, moral, or ethical qualms...

Is patently false. He did attempt to use those channels and was ignored [1] - at least once as confirmed by the NSA itself, and many other times according to him, which the NSA disputes.

[1] - http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/edward-snowden-interview/edwa...

I think there's some question of whether sending one email counts as an exhaustive effort.

Just because there's only one email doesn't mean there were not substantial efforts made in other ways. Phones exist. Talking to people in person is a thing.

If you're going to leak 1.5 million documents and flee to China on the grounds of being a whistleblower after following proper channels, wouldn't you want to display some, any sort of proof that you indeed did attempt to follow the proper channels?

People claim this dude was a genius, make him out as some sort of tech/hacker savant, so why not make the slightest effort to show the world you really are a whistleblower?

We also have statements from Snowden suggesting that the reason he took the job was to gain access to those documents and them disseminate them to various world governments, which is a goal that would be impeded by whistleblowing through channels.

They didn't claim he failed to make an exhaustive effort. They claim he made no effort. That claim is demonstrably false.

If it's "demonstrably" false, you haven't demonstrated it yet. Can you point us to some evidence showing that he complained to any authority within the government about what he learned about NSA's activities? You'll need to show more than that he mailed someone; we'll need to know more about what was in that mail.

> Is patently false. He did attempt to use those channels and was ignored [1] - at least once as confirmed by the NSA itself, and many other times according to him, which the NSA disputes.

The same article you link says Snowden "tried to go through channels". It's not "patently false". It's "he claimed he tried". Meanwhile, investigations show only one email he sent regarding general clarification on NSA authorities but zero raising any concern or complaints: https://news.vice.com/article/nsa-finds-new-snowden-emails-b...

The senators claim he did not avail himself of these channels. He did avail himself of a channel. That much is not in dispute. He may not have done so to your satisfaction, or apparently to the satisfaction of these senators - but that isn't what they claimed. They claimed he didn't do it at all. And that is patently false.

He asked a general question regarding authorities to OGC. What's the bar of "availing" himself to a channel? If he sent an email to OGC asking how their weekend was, he would have technically "consulted with OGC", would he not?

As it stands, there is zero evidence (from either side) that Snowden complained to the proper channels.

And why would he when his plan was to leave the country with 1.5 million classified documents?

You can put forward the argument that Snowden tried to escalate through channels, but you cannot reasonably say that it's patently true that he did, because the evidence doesn't support that claim. The simplest thing to say about this as that there is a dispute over whether Snowden tried to escalate through channels.

There is no dispute. He sent at least one email on the matter, and that is mutually agreed upon by him and NSA. The rest is in dispute.

My understanding --- and corrections: welcome --- is that the one email we know about contains no complaints about NSA programs.

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