San Diego Struggles to Keep Its Young Tech Talent

I grew up in San Diego before spending 20 years in the Bay Area. While I totally understand why a fresh graduate would want to head north to the bay, I think as a place to CREATE a startup, San Diego has tremendous potential.

The weather is beautiful and actually beats SF. It's close to 70 year round, nice and dry, with great beaches and mountain and desert hiking. As the article notes downtown has been evolving in a really promising direction, to say nothing of classic beach spots like Del Mar, La Jolla, Pacific Beach, etc. For getaways there is LA, Mexico, skiing at Big Bear.

The computer science program at UCSD is typically ranked about 15th globally, CalTech is not terribly far north, nor is UCLA and UC Irvine and UCSB and UC Riverside, and SDSU, though it has a reputation as a party school, is no slouch.

Meanwhile the housing is still affordable compared to the Bay Area, if not cheap on a national basis. And the Valley is an hourlong Southwest flight away.

More important there is a real diversity of industry still in San Diego, with lots of biotech, defense (contracting and the actual Navy), aerospace, and health.

Thirty years ago, the Bay Area/Valley had a very San Diego feel to it. Easy to forget now, but it was a pretty laid back place where an ordinary person could buy a nice spread in the suburbs and where starting a business in your garage was a reasonable thing to attempt in a borderline casual way. You get the impression people smoked a lot of pot and spent a lot of time relaxing, whether in hot tubs or on hiking trails or wherever. It was a California lifestyle. The Bay Area feels like New York now, except with tech and better weather — just very intense. San Diego still feels like California.

I'm not saying it'll ever match the Bay Area/Valley as a tech hub; the lead in Northern California is too great. But San Diego should be at or near the top of the list of secondary hubs, in my biased opinion.

I can see the appeal of places like SF and NYC for 20-somethings, but I'm in my mid-30s with 2 kids and in San Diego I can afford a nice single-family house in the suburbs with good public schools and (relatively) affordable daycare. When I hear about the crowding and cost of living in places like SF/Boston/NYC it makes me shudder. I love it here, but I work in La Jolla not Sorrento Valley (I'm in biotech, not IT). But I think for more-middle aged folks, the restaurant scene near work is less of a factor? I don't need excitement, I need affordable housing and schools -- and the weather and outdoor activities are worth A LOT to me.

I moved to San Diego to start a tech company with a partner about 18 months ago. SD was chosen because partner lived there and was established. We found it very difficult to get the attention of any VC's or potential customers. We did manage to get an interview with YC, but were declined.

Was this due to the location? Perhaps. I do know that the events we went to were lackluster, and the ecosystem was weak. You've got Evonexus (which wouldn't even talk to us), and Connect Springboard, who wanted less complex ideas. Meetups were ok but the ones we went to ended up with more hangers on ("hey I brought my class of 20 HS students to learn about startups at this meetup with 8 people!") than actual people doing stuff.

Also, to be honest I just really didn't like San Diego. My wife got hit by a car while riding to work on a scooter and was in a cast for a few months; the weather was too damn hot (and I lived only two miles from the beach); public transport is dreadful; the culture, while better than LA, is still very socal; drivers tried to kill me as I cycled everywhere; and the city is a model of horrific urban design. Even in places that COULD be great you've got organizations like the Hillcrest Business Association trying to kill a single. damn. bike lane on one of the most heavily-ridden (and dangeous) streets in San Diego - University Ave. The city spends years claiming it's doing something just to have SANDAG kill it. This is particularly egregious when you consider that Todd Gloria supports cycling - until it matters. A bike lane in the middle of nowhere doesn't take any political courage.

SD is vastly overrated. I will admit, though, that the beer and Mexican food are good. Within SD I _did_ quite like South Park. It was when I needed to leave South Park that things were bad.

I'm in San Diego and have visited SF many times on business and pleasure. I used to think I would want to live in the City and retire in the Bay area. Today, I'm not so sure. It's just too crazy. Driving from my friend's studio 3rd floor walk-up near AT&T Park to Mountain View convinced me that drive is crazy. I could get anywhere in San Diego in the time it took me to make that commute.

And the article didn't seem to mention this, but a lot of these SV companies are in office parks. Google, Apple, office parks with flair (and I use flair in the Office Space sense of the word). The future is falling from the sky like rain, but like rain, a lot of it is lost down the drain.

Also, Google is opening a pretty good-sized building in San Diego, just down the street from Green Flash.

Also, I'm on the Navy side of government tech transfer. I have to say, the government gives developers a pretty sweet deal on their IP rights.

Actually, y'all just go up to SF. Please. Enjoy it. I'll slum it down here. I'll visit you.

It's fun to see San Diego at the top of HN.

I'm finishing a PhD at UC San Diego, and I've noticed a few things. First, there is a different dynamic for biotech talent. The biotech scene in SD is strong, and people seem drawn to that. Second, in contrast to LA at least, commuting in SD is not terribly difficult. And there is a light rail (trolley) beginning construction up to the UCSD campus from downtown. Third, this city is a draw for people (like me) who are looking for something less bustling than SF or LA, and I think it's important to try to keep young talent here by selling this idea. In biotech, we desperately need better software engineers.

Approaching my graduation from UCSD's CS program back in '08, I couldn't wait to move from SD to SF. Several reasons but the main ones were: 1) hard to find driven people that wanted to make an impact in their field 2) tech scene was heavily dominated by biotech and Qualcomm 3) missing intellectually curious people.

I hope it turns around soon however, since it's a beautiful place to live.

I don't buy it. The northern part of San Diego is pretty comparable to, say, Mountain View.

The real problem is lack of compelling opportunities. Your options are basically Qualcomm or Inuit -- neither of which have particular draw for young engineers.

Notwithstanding the authors comments about location, I didn't want the engineers who want to stay in San Diego to miss the opportunity to do so because they were not aware of the great opportunities (companies) that are here. Many of these companies are hiring, and some of the most explosive are downtown: DOWNTOWN: MindTouch Classy Take Lessons GoFormz Underground Elephant Sweetlabs ChatMeter Tap Hunter Zesty.io Skysafe

MID-Torrey/Mira Mesa/Solana: Tealium iBoss Seismic Certona Nervana (recently purchased by Intel) Zebit Ingenu StackIQ Slantrange GovX SOCI Peachtree Zingle Cordial AttackIQ PacketSled

NORTH Verve Mobile NTN Buzztime Luxtera Source Intelligence VoxOx

And this is only pure tech companies - not including the cross-over healthcare IT/analytics companies...

Good luck hunting. These companies are hiring UCSD grads.

Who cares? Where are the articles about San Antonio losing its "young oil and gas talent" to Houston? How about Philly losing its "young finance talent" to New York?

Also, I'm pretty sure biotech counts as "tech." Hey, it even has it in the name. Too bad they don't have more on demand laundry startups, since apparently that's the key to success as a city.

I guess it really depends on which you value – being close to work or living somewhere cool. I am one of the few that actually reside in Sorrento Valley in the middle of Qualcomm land. People don't want to live here because the neighborhood isn't "cool" or "hip". However, I never have to put up with traffic, the Del Mar beach is about fifteen-twenty minutes away, and I can walk to Karl Strauss Brewery, Starbucks, and my co-working place. When I want a better "scene", downtown is just a twenty minute uber ride away. It actually works out pretty darn well if ya ask me, even if it's not a cool place like North Park or Little Italy.

As a 23 year old software engineer that recently chose to live in SD over SF I find this article kind of funny. It didn't make sense to me to choose a place where i might make more money, but have to spend it all to live. Life can be pretty cheap in SD. I live 20 minutes/15 miles from work, a commute that would take an hour in the bay. I also pay <$700 for the master bedroom in my house. I'm also a 10 min uber to any downtown spot I want. Not much overpriced food here either, and many options if you drive 15 minutes. You may not be working at Google or Apple down here, but that might not be the worst thing.

As someone in Tech who has worked both in Sorrento Valley and Downtown as well as places like LaJolla, Point Loma and now remotely from home in Lakeside I can only say that as a developer I preferred my experience working downtown vs anywhere else. Keep in mind this wasn't me the Entrepreneur, this was merely me the software engineer working for someone else, I was living in Fashion Valley at the time and could take the trolley right up to the office across the street from the main train station and it was a great commute. My wife would bring the kids down for lunch and we'd meet up at the water fountain park at City Hall or at the Children's museum. If I had to work late it didn't matter because the trolley ran late into the night and would drop me off right at home. The dev team could walk outside of the office and go to pretty much any restaurant in little Italy or within a short walking distance so we were never limited to mall or fast food and team lunches were the highlight of the week. If you didn't want to go to a restaurant there were always food trucks on some days of the week and the views from the high rises made you feel like the kind of work you were doing was important. As an entrepreneur now having an office downtown is crazy expensive and an unnecessary commute but if you're trying to understand it from the perspective of the workers and the talent themselves, I would always pick a job downtown vs one in Sorrento Valley or LaJolla any day of the week but that's just me and different people have different desires and perspectives. I'm not a beach guy though but I can also see a beach office being a huge talent draw for you as well, I guess it just depends on the personalities of the folks you're trying to draw that's all.

Hi from San Diego.

I did a brief contracting stint in SF, and considered relocating up there for work (the pay is indeed much better) but ultimately decided against it. Note that I grew up in the Bay Area.

In SD I pay $2300/month for a 2500 sqft house with a yard and garage, 4 blocks from the ocean. While in SF, I paid this for a single room in a shady neighborhood without a window.

After coming back here, I was struck by how clean it is compared to SF.

For the young people, SD has some of the best nightlife I have experienced (and I've been everywhere throughout California). SF has better food but our culinary scene is getting much better and has improved drastically over the last decade, IMO.

We also have a growing capital scene. Its not SV, but if I were an investor I would hole up here - its nicer, cheaper, and the burn rate is lower. Plus we have some big players here: Rockstar, Sony, Psyonix (Rocket League), Qualcomm, many military contractors, and so forth. Even a bit of history here - FTL (which made Dungeon Master) was located in SD.

Anyhow I'll stick around here for now. :)

Little do they know that SV is just as desolate? Most of the big tech firms are 1-2 hours away from SF in suburbia.

Slightly off topic, maybe. I live in San Diego. Anyone here from the area know of any local resources a novice developer can use? I searched through ycombinator and the one book everyone refers to is the Big Nerd Ranch one. Currently going through that.

I see that the article mentions Origin Code Academy. However, I already work full time and can't use the day time to take classes at an academy.

I have a few ideas for apps that I can personally use for my own benefit and intend on publishing the apps to see maybe others can pick it up.

I lived in San Diego for the last two years and this article doesn't make much sense to me. They say the problem is that Sorento valley is to far from San Diego downtown but downtown is dull and there are plenty of good places to live not far away from Sorento valley (Del Mar, La Jolla, Pacific Beach). I commuted from North Park to the UCSD campus which is close to Sorrento valley and it was no problem at all.

I was in San Diego last year. Speaking to recent graduates as well as people looking to go to university, a great many, more than I expected, mentioned wanting to move to the SF bay area for either work or study, once I mentioned living in the SFBA --admonitions about the cost of living didn't seem to have much sway.

I think young locals see SD as an outpost of (US) civilization and have a desire to move to the actual center of jobs, education, technology and a little bit of culture.

I mean, you could live downtown and drive 25 minutes to Sorrento valley. Most commuters are going the opposite way. You could even go surfing in the morning before work, if you live just a bit north of Downtown.

Sorrento valley is a lonely place though, I do admit this.

Really? My experience is that quite a few of the students I know who graduated in CS are underemployed in San Diego and you couldn't blast them out with a nuclear bomb. Most of them would benefit from a couple of year stint somewhere else and then coming back.

And, why would they want to live in downtown San Diego? It's a terribly boring place. SD is not NYC or Chicago. A lot of young people are into the beach, and there are mixed ethnic areas that are far more interesting than downtown. Although, to be fair, the real problem is that there is nowhere cheap for the artists who make an area interesting to live. Furthermore, my personal assessment is that the downtown areas in most tech cities aren't really that "interesting" unless you have a remarkable amount of money to spend--which young people don't.

On top of all that, San Diego salaries ALWAYS lag. I call it the Sun Tax, but you can generally go to the Bay Area for a 50+% (or more) bump. San Diego isn't THAT much cheaper than the Bay Area.

Add to the stack that the startup ecosystem sucks.

1) Raising an angel round - and certainly a Series A - in San Diego means getting on a plane to the Bay Area or a 2.5 hour drive to LA.

2) Potential acquirers are all up north which means not only do you have to figure out how to sell your tech people on SD while you're building, you have to then sell them on relocating when you get a term sheet.

When I first visited San Francisco for a work trip, I was so underwhelmed about my experience there, don't take me wrong I think it's a great city with a lot going on, but I couldn't help but feel like it was so overhyped. Several friends wouldn't stop talking about how great SF is, and in my mind I always had this silly image of self driving cars, entire streets dedicated to technology and all kinds of futuristic scenery before I visited but instead on my first visit I was greeted by some crackhead spitting on me while riding BART, lots of beggars and homeless people as I got out of the station and walked around, trash in the streets and it looked like just another city. Lots of restaurants and bars though, fantastic food selection.

I could be a bit biased on my view though, as I'm more of a suburb person.

I'd like to visit Palo Alto and San Jose to check it out at some point, I've heard it has a lot to offer too

Speaking as an SD native, and a 25 year old developer, I've definitely felt the urge to move to San Francisco at times, but I could totally see SD becoming a huge hub for the tech industry if given the chance. SD would need some huge transit changes (it would be great if it actually worked), and having companies move downtown would relieve a lot of the hassle of commuting.

The north county areas of SD, where the tech jobs are, feel a lot like Silicon Valley, and I don't think that's a good thing. Leaving Mira Mesa for SV is not a win in my book. SF proper is an amazing place, much like SD, with lots of culture and stuff to do, but unlike SF, SD doesn't have the clout with the tech culture. Personally, I'm always excited when people say they're creating tech startups here, and I hope more people do.

Plus we're always on vacation here :P

EDIT: I agree that most people I meet are not interested in working for Intuit and Qualcomm.

As someone from Dallas who's considering a move next year (not by choice; our state legislature has promised to pass laws next year that will make it effectively illegal for me to continue to live here), I have no interest in ever setting foot in NorCal, but SoCal is on my short list.

I find the Silicon Valley tech industry frightening and the culture associated with it degenerate. I'm not interested in the out-of-control housing costs either. SoCal, on the other hand, reminds me of home far more than most any other part of the country I've looked at. If I were to move to the LA or SD areas, I wouldn't feel too horribly out of place there.

So count me in as one young-ish person (31, but still technically a Millennial) in tech who would rather live in San Diego than Silicon Valley.

If it helps, I prefer to live in the suburbs and detest the idea of living in any kind of downtown.

I got a pretty competitive offer from a San Diego startup about 3 years back. They flew me down, wined & dined & afterwards we talked a bit of technology. They even did a real-estate tour to sort of close the deal. I turned them down after a lot of thought. Based on the outcome of that startup now, I was right. But you never know...

There is a fantastic passage in William Goldman's books where he talks about why all successful screenplays have basically been written out of crummy motels in Hollywood Blvd and tiny apartments in theatre district in NYC. Most successful screenwriters like Goldman for example are millionaires and film companies can easily afford to put them up in some exotic hotel in Vail or other foreign locales etc. Why pick crummy hovels to do your best work ? The same goes for Kurosawa ( Seven Samurai etc.) who did all his best work in some tiny hotel room even though his palatial house was much better furnished. Essentially, there is something called work-culture that happens best in work-cities, and when you think about tech work, the work-cities are basically crammed rows of desks in mountain view, Palo alto, soma SF,.... You don't think of jira tickets and Tahiti in the same breath. And those were the vibes I got out of San Diego - it was so nice and relaxing and I didn't see myself or my other colleagues getting any serious work done. You just felt like kicking back and watching the clouds or going surfing and lying on the beach. It's too holidayish. I would go there for a vacation, but not to actually get work done.

Like it or not, most tech work isn't particularly pleasant, and that matches the crummy efficient silicon valley vibes...rows of laptops, hardly any space, minutes away from pools of urine and filth on Market Street...I mean, it is what it is. I love Silicon Valley and I don't see work moving away from here given the nature of this work-city. Professors at school used to say the same thing about why the top math journals and papers come out of Minnesota and Chicago and Boston, as opposed to universities in more pleasant climes - because the weather in those places is so awful you have no choice but to stay cooped up in the library working on your papers :)

Job mobility is also a big factor. I talked with someone who moved from the Bay Area to San Diego; people in San Diego tend to stay with their jobs for a long time. Whereas here it's not unusual to have people switching after 1-2 years.

My first job out of school was at Qualcomm.

The lunch options are actually pretty great (Mexican/Indian/Afghan/Thai/Chinese/French/Donut Touch/whatever you want) in Sorrento Valley, and it's located next to a beautiful canyon. The problem is that it's profoundly isolated from the rest of the city, and there's reasonable way to get there and back other than driving in heavy traffic. Basically, although it's in the City of San Diego, it's not remotely in anything resembling a city and it's not near anything remotely resembling a social life.

I lived in La Jolla near the beach— also beautiful, but also boring by design. Any youth and energy (other than drunks in lifted trucks) was a half-hour drive away, which also meant I couldn't drink.

I also didn't love my work at Qualcomm and couldn't find another job in a more-reasonable location.

I biked to work there, but that meant biking on the 5, which felt extremely unsustainable— the only other bike commuter I ran into was an older guy who had been rear-ended by a drunk on a similar route. There was no practical way to commute on transit— just an infrequent commuter train down an enormous mesa from the office.

The article cites pay, location and happening as factors, though I also think there just isn't demand for young tech talent in SD. San Diego is where older folks/retired military go to raise families or retire proper as they land relatively cushy positions in the big sectors we do have here (Qualcomm et. al). New grad and junior positions are there yet still too few.

There is startup culture in San Diego, and maybe this is just because I was down south, but tech firms seemed to comprise only a small number of them. Of the ones I had met, they were either in "We're only interested in those with years of proven experience" (albeit they were typically working in advanced areas) or "We just graduated too and can nary afford to pay anyone" phases.

On top of all that my offers were too low to comfortably move out of my family's flat (perhaps I am entitled). Inadvertently, I'm now in the Bay Area.

Take this with a grain of salt. I studied abroad and my network at home was neither expansive nor tech-oriented. I'm also led to believe I couldn't obtain appropriate security clearance so military contractual work was a no-go.

As a San Diego resident for the last 12 years, I have to agree it is not a good place for a tech worker. Salaries are quite low compared to other areas, companies aren't very many or particular successful, and housing costs in the good school districts are high (at least $600k for a SFR). Public transit is awful, and car traffic is quite bad as well. If I didn't have family here, I'd definitely move.

By stressing lack of downtown locations, this seems be a fluff piece ala "Millenials don't want to drive!".

While there's a lot of competition for talent to leave to Bay Area, lots of folks I know moved here to SD to actually have a life outside of work, since its housing prices are much lower, access to beaches, food, etc. The commuting is better than SF imho, unless you simply cannot or refuse to drive.

In my opinion this article and others I've seen like it seem have everything backwards. For new graduates I wouldn't recommend living in downtown San Diego, at least not right now. It's (relatively) expensive and can get old real quick.

Instead I'd suggest trying to find a job downtown or elsewhere and live somewhere more exciting/fun like the beach (Mission/Pacific) or any of the neighborhoods surrounding downtown (North/South Park). The rent is generally <$1000/month, the commute from any of these places is <20 minutes, and there's always something to do.

Also, haven't seen the University of San Diego (USD) mentioned in any of the other comments, but they just opened a standalone engineering school last year, so I'm sure that will also start to attract a lot more talent to the area (biased USD alumnus here).

After doing a 4 year stint in Orange County and just moving back last year, I'd say things are looking better than ever for SD, not worse. I'm glad I moved back and excited to see where it goes from here.

This is a situation where part-time telecommuting can work out: live in San Diego, work in North County, but only drive up 1-2 days a week.

Would love to move out to San Diego since I have close relatives in that area. I have job prospects in the LA and Bay areas. Took a few (phone / Skype / Google Hangouts) interviews with a couple employers in those areas and all of them went very well. I am on the east coast (glad they settled for remote interviews so far) and both the companies want me to fly out to meet now.

Thought I'd post here in case anyone's hiring. I'd rather live in / near San Diego and be close to family. Love it there.

I work remotely and there's the possibility for me to move while staying at my current job. I am looking to change jobs if I get a better offer since my cost of living will increase when I move to San Diego.

If you have any comments or are looking for experienced (7+ yrs) software engineers please get in touch. Using a throaway account because I don't want my employer to know that I'm looking for a job.

To upgrade challenging neighborhoods in New York, developers along with the city politicians created spaces for artists with reduced rents for a specific amount of years. By bringing in artists in the neighborhood would become "trendy" and draw more development. Perhaps San Diego can do the same thing with developers?

Tom Wolfe on "artists are usually at the forefront of neighborhood revitalization..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=o8GEcPiiKjcC&pg=PA184&lpg=...

A relevant story. I worked with a friend here in the Bay Area a while back. One day his father in law got sick, and he was forced to move to San Diego. When he started looking for jobs, they were all offing about 20% less money for the same work, despite the fact that at the time the cost of living was almost identical.

When he asked one of them, "why don't you pay as much as the bay area" he was told, "our weather is better so we pay less".

There's only so much suffering you're willing to take for "better weather".

The same could of course be said for Silicon Valley too.

It's interesting that he says location is the cause. I think I agree, but then I think about DC, where most of the tech jobs (aside from some government ones) seem to be located outside of the city

Why does tech talent have to be young?

I live in SF. I have all the complaints and compliments for the city that all of us do. But if someone in SD decides not to move because Sorrento Valley is too far from downtown, they're going to be wildly disappointed. SF is small, but is such a pain to move around in that you end up spending 90% of your time within walking distance of home and work.

All of the tech jobs are in bland industrial office parks? Protip: Don't literally emulate Silicon Valley by building your tech scene to resemble boring, culture-less suburban Santa Clara County. Don't build it to resemble overpriced, under-serviced urban San Francisco, either. Innovate a better model.

After Qualcomm's layoffs last year I am not sure how many still want to go work for them.

seriously? people moving away because there are no good restaurants near work places?

San Diego has plenty of tech future. Startup scene is rich.

Amazon is here now (Solana Beach; disclaimer I work there) - and hiring.

Google is coming.

Many MANY cities are struggling with this -- business parks outside of the city core and the only way between is commute via car.

Frankly this blows pretty hard and the only remediation is reliable public transit between the two, or more to the point, some form of light rail (with frequent all-day every-day service) or even heavy rapid transit. Sadly many municipalities find this unappetizing as the time-frame for such a project stretches past a decade and the cost into the billions, so such cities will inevitably be left to languish.

I can only hope that they start to see the writing on the wall sooner than later.

The complete and total lack of attention to bicycle infrastructure is an issue too, but that is a whole different can of worms.

a lot of people also move north to orange county or los angeles.