Ask HN: Devices for multidimensional input of continuous variables by human | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Devices for multidimensional input of continuous variables by human

1 pointinlineint7 comments

Today I watched video from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12499571 and now I have an idea that it would be nice to change not only one parameter, but multiple parameters in the embedding space simultaneously and have instant feedback.

So I wonder is there a device that allow to control 8-10 continuous parameters simultaneously (so that the inputs are not correlated). The device should not require constant watching, so that it possible to watch on a screen with generated embedding. Also I wish this device to be commercially available and cost less than thousands of dollars.

For case of two dimensions the solution is well known: mouse or touchpad.

For case of four dimensions the touchpad solution can mostly be generalized: it is possible to use two touchpads, for right and left hands. A quick way to implement it is to use a touchscreen phone/tablet with with two virtual touchpads on it as a such input device.

But for cases of higher dimensions it becomes more complicated. It is possible to use MIDI control devices for music producers like this: https://store.djtechtools.com/products/midi-fighter-twister , but while it doesn't require constant watching (unlike virtual knobs on screen), it allows to change only two parameters simultaneously (because one hand can rotate only one knob at time).

There is a motion tracking wear system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11946790 , but I don't like the idea of wearing a special costume when I sit at my computer, I prefer an external to my body solution as opposite to wearable.

I don't consider EEG devices because the data from them is opaque and because I don't want to train my brain to generate electrical activity by wish because I'm not sure about health concerns of it.

Any ideas?

Another source for ideas are papers in large HCI conferences, e.g. ACM CHI. Researchers have prototyped and evaluated lot of input devices in many variations.

8-10 dimensions is a lot, to the point that I'm not sure an input device that allows to control all of them simultaneously is viable.

There are so-called "space mice" which are often used by people working on 3D objects and have many degrees of freedom.

Various tracking devices (Kinect, Leap Motion, Wiimote) can theoretically be used to get a lot of inputs, but when moving in "free space" it's very hard to just adjust a single factor independently (if that's required).

Also, is very hard to work efficiently with two hands on independent parameters: generally it's more efficient to have one hand generating value input and another switching parameters. Again, there are tons of papers evaluating this kind of thing.

Thank you for detailed answer and especially a note about two hands. I didn't think about it, but actually it could be a problem.

Right now a MIDI controller with faders/knobs seems to be the most simple and reliable solution and it can be used with one hand as like as with two.

I think with the right controllers designed for games, you can get up to 8+ dimensions simultaneously, though considerable dexterity would be needed to do it effectively.

You can get to 8 this way:

2 x 3-axis (left/right translation, forward/back translation, cw/ccw twist) joysticks

2 x foot pedals

I think there are 3-axis twist joysticks that either also have one or more pressure-sensitive triggers or thumb wheels that could give at least one extra axis per joystick, so you might be able to get up to 10 dimensions with such a set up.

In theory, you can adjust many more parameters simultaneously (as in, adjusting them at the same time) than with separate knobs this way, but accuracy is going to be, well, extremely tricky.

How about 6 dimensions? Two hands, each able to move along 3 axes: http://blog.leapmotion.com/creating-a-hand-controlled-orches...

I'm not sure that it good for fine tuning of multiple parameters because it's easy to move hand in a wrong direction. But I can't say it for sure because I haven't use it. The fun thing is that the process of controlling would probably remind playing on Theremin.

I would think that an audio mixer (the sliders, specifically) could be adapted for such a purpose.

Yes, some MIDI controllers with motorized faders look good.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com