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Comment by flukus | Hacker News Reader

> I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke.

So we have to treat women differently than men? Sounds a bit sexist.

No, not differently, you just need a base level of respect that allows for diversity. Various groups of people don't face the same issues as other groups of people. It's easy to be in one group, and say something that is a lot more offensive to another group due to real fear and/or discrimination, and vice versa. So no matter what group/s you belong to you need to be respectful of other groups and their challenges.

Why is the onus on me to be aware of what every sub group considers offensive? Why isn't the onus on the sub group to recognize that they are a minority and that not everyone around them has to meet their standards of what is and isn't offensive?

because in a workspace the culture is one of inclusiveness, the onus on you is to be inclusive, I'm sorry to say, that's going to require some awareness on your part. But don't worry, it will likely just make you a better person overall.

My path of least resistance is to avoid talking to $minority. So the end result of this PC culture will be less inclusiveness.

correct, that is the path of least resistance. Culture change takes real effort

But I don't want to change the culture to one where we can't say anything for fear of hurt some special snowflakes feelings. In fact I'll fight against it.

A workplace is not required to ensure you're not offended, only that you're not sexually harassed, harrases in general, or discriminated against (if a protected class). A workplace can also not force inclusiveness.

I fear that the swing in PC culture is going to cause more harm than good for "inclusiveness" now that the pendulum has swung too far.

I'm not from/in the US. PC is about respecting people, I don't think we are really in danger of too much respect. The only bad rap PC gets is when people only pay it lip service. but at its core, it's about respect

Exactly. Consider being an employer and having two candidates to hire. Both candidates posess an equal amount of skill, the only difference is their gender. Now you have two options: you can hire a woman and risk that she will complain about "toxic work environment" and "sexism in the industry" while tying your company name to these accusations... or you can hire a man and not worry about that at all. Why wouldn't you go for the second option? Not only you will get the same result when it comes to work, you'll also avoid the situation described in the article.

Avoiding funny jokes because they might offend someone won’t teach people anything. It’ll just make them feel like they have to suppress what they actually want to say.

Most people have a thick enough skin to get over it, so the people around them don’t all have to adjust to their feelings.

funny jokes that are made at the expense of people really don't have any place in the workplace. In comedy there is a concept that anything can be made funny. So, limiting the kinds of jokes you make still leaves you an almost infinite amount of jokes to make :)

Sure, people do have thick skins mostly, but you shouldn't rely on that. Again, it's just about being respectful of people.

Yes, but that can’t be done preemptively, see? Anyone I meet could be anything—any religion, any race, even a neo-Nazi for all I know—and it wouldn’t be evident from their appearance. So should I just avoid all jokes that are at anyone’s expense? Isn’t it better to be unafraid about what I say and to apologize if a joke I made was at the expense of someone in the room and they were offended by it? I never intend to offend anyone, but I’ve also had quite a few good-natured laughs at others’ expense without any intention of demeaning them. I don’t see anything wrong with that if I apologize once someone is offended and then avoid making jokes at their expense around them.

If you want to be respectful of everyone around you, that's what it takes--awareness of what they consider offensive.

If you don't care about being respectful, don't bother finding out.

There may be consequences if you don't, there may not be. Me, I want to be respectful, so I start with a safe neutral ground and go on from there.

But why is it a one way street? One don't they have to be respectful of me and the human inability to know everything?

you are right, it shouldn't be one way, and workplaces should actively educate what the issues are. You shouldn't be expected to just know everything, especially as it is a bit of a moving target.

No, not differently, [...] you need to be respectful of other groups and their challenges.

So, be accommodating in a way that means people are treated differently, but just don't call it treating them different?

10-4 loud and clear, good buddy.

Wake me up when men are raped at the same rate as women and then we can talk about treating everyone the same.

So sexism is okay until men and women are raped in equal amounts?

It's not sexism. Women and men are treated differently from basically the day they're born. Talk to some women for a change, and learn about their fears and apprehensions. You'd be surprised. Until you try to educate yourself, the Internet can't do it for you.

So equality is a list cause and your fine with that?

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