Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

Well, they certainly didn't under-sensor the thing. The big model Velodyne LIDAR, a small LIDAR looking upward, stereo cameras in all directions, and probably some radars.

The big rotating Velodyne thing has got to go. But so far, nobody who claims to have a suitable solid-state 3D LIDAR is actually shipping. Quanergy claimed a solid-state LIDAR suitable for automotive use [1][2] and showed it at CES, but never shipped. Their web site hasn't been updated since 2015. They were aiming at a price point around $100.

Advanced Scientific Concepts has a suitable LIDAR that costs far too much. Space-X uses an ASC unit on the Dragon capsule for docking. ASC announced they were getting into automotive in 2012 but never shipped.[3]

Somebody is going to do this soon. The technology works. It's a cost problem. Once the cost comes down, cars can have multiple LIDARs (at least fore and aft) near the top of the windshield and rear window. This gets rid of all that topside gear.

[1] http://www.quanergy.com/products/ [2] http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2016/presentation/s6726... [3] http://www.advancedscientificconcepts.com/applications/autom...

Quanergy raised $90 million on a $1.5 billion valuation last month. They announced products at $250 /unit and $100 / unit starting production in Q4 with full capacity Q1 2017.

http://fortune.com/2016/08/22/self-driving-car-quanergy/

This is effectively restating what Animats said. Quanergy has not shipped.

No, it's providing further information that Quanergy is in a position to ship and has given a very near timeline to deliver.

A very past timeline:

November 17, 2015 09:00 AM Pacific Standard Time SUNNYVALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)

* Quanergy Systems, Inc., will introduce in early 2016 the world’s first solid state LiDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) sensor for self-driving cars for less than $1,000 per car, it was announced today at the Los Angeles Auto Show’s Connected Car Expo.*

They're already six months late. The press releases keep coming out, and the hype continues, but where's the hardware?

American Scientific Concepts has working units which do what Quanergy claims to do and more, but they seem content to sell them to DoD and Space-X at a high price.

"Quanergy’s LiDAR sensors are being used by five automakers that are developing automated vehicles."

That sounds like shipping to me. You don't ramp up volume production as an automotive supplier until your customers are ready. Naming Flex and Sensata/TI as manufacturers is a fairly specific and strong indicator that they are ramping, unless you're suggesting securities fraud?

Since self-driving cars are still a new experience for most people, all of that visible topside gear might give riders a sense of security.

It looks more like a way to simplify manufacturing. Put all the sensors in one factory-built topside unit, then bolt that to the car. Less labor intensive than hanging stuff all over the car, cheaper in small volumes than integration with the car body, and you can align everything during manufacturing.

This sort of add-on thing is temporary. Another generation and cars will have an equally good sensor suite, but it will barely show.

I was thinking the exact same thing. It's not a beauty contest as long as Uber is owning the prototype fleet. Plus, I think it will clue in other drivers to: "Dude, that was one of those 'driverless ubers' right?"

> It's not a beauty contest

And plenty of taxis in my neck of the woods have rooftop advertising, anyway.

On the other hand, it makes it clear the car is an Uber. Illegal parking and such will be a lot easier to ticket.

I wonder if having all the gear will have a positive effect. Once drivers learn it means that those are self-driving cars it can begin to acclimate drivers to having such cars on the road. And as they see how (hopefully) predictably those cars drive it will increase their comfort level until they may be willing to purchase a self-driving car for themselves. I could also see a small rise in rear end collisions as people think that they can safely tailgate a self-driving car believing that it will not stop suddenly, that it will not act in the unpredictable ways that normally make us cautious of other drivers/cars on the road.

I still can't believe how under-sensored Tesla's "Auto Pilot" is. It's dangerous marketing it as self driving and not forcing drivers to pay attention.

Dangerous, yes. Marketed as self driving, no.

They called it Auto-Pilot. 90% of the public doesn't read beyond that.

In your opinion.

Objectively, tonnes of people are using it right now, have been for months (is it a year yet?) and there has been one incident.

In my opinion, it was developed by engineers probably a lot smarter than you or I, has enough sensoring for what it does, and despite not being flawless, might be better than no autopilot.

This is a ridiculous response. The known fatality from Tesla's Autopilot was caused by an existing sensor problem that has no remedy, besides more sensors. The thing will essentially drive into overhanging white billboards and who knows what else. The fact that this isn't a wide disclosure is criminally reprehensible.

Sensor problem fixed in 8.0 software update.

Still radar blind at windshield height.

A least two. There was a third I had read about, but I don't remember the source

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/business/fatal-tesla-cr...

I'd also argue that there is a difference between incident and fatality. Incidents are also bad - even if they're not fatal.

I was wondering if they were including all of those sensors in order to maximize how much data they gather during the trial, especially when they're trying to improve failure conditions. From that, they'll be able to optimize to just the sensors they find necessary based on their training data.

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