Hacker News Reader

Comment by alex_hitchins | Hacker News Reader

A rubbish question, but if you build your house in accordance to the published codes but don't purchase a copy, are you infringing their copyright by adhering to the standards?

View on HN

If I believed copyright covered them, building a house based on them would definitely be considered a transformative work.

I don't think it would be considered any sort of derivative work. Consider recipes (and other published algorithms). Cooked dishes are not considered a derivative of the recipe, and those are step by step instructions for creating the thing in question. Codes are one step further removed in that they give tolerances and the like, so they don't even describe an object. If I write, "You should not use md5 to store passwords." it's not like all programs storing passwords with bcrypt written by people who have read that sentence are derivatives of my copyrighted work.

Recipes are not protected by copyright, so your example isn't very helpful.

In the US, recipes that are not just a list of ingredients, which would be most recipes, are covered by copyright.[0]

"Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook."

Note that 'substantial' here doesn't mean it needs to be novella length. A simple description of the steps involved would be enough.

[0] - http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html

My understanding was that in Publications International, Ltd. v. Meredith Corp [0] the ruling came down fairly heavily on the side of recipes (including directions) being outside the domain of copyright. In that case a substantial number of recipes were copied out of a book and published elsewhere, but the court ruling stated:

“[The] recipes’ directions for preparing the assorted dishes fall squarely within the class of subject matter specifically excluded from copyright protection by 17 U.S.C. § 102(b).”

IANAL etc. Just curious if you have heard otherwise?

[0] - http://www.pddoc.com/copyright/publications_v_meredith.htm

No. Unless it's a boat hull, which are specifically listed in DMCA.

You're answering a pretty different question. The DMCA protects particular boat hulls, not all boat hulls that follow some boat hull standard. What's really going on is that boat hull manufacturers were doing an end-run around the copyrightability of their product, similar to how furniture manufacturers and fashion designers have struggled.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com