HP is buying Samsung’s printer business for $1.05B
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
Much needed indeed. The printer industry is a catastrophe. There is zero innovation, everybody keeps making the same crap over and over again, with new branding, and new numbers/designations. Is your Samsung X1214LX2 better than your HP LP19311A?
Also, where are the specialized niche printers? Why can't I print ink on a copper PCB, so that I can etch it later? Why can't I print soldermasks or silkscreens? Where is my printer that prints on fabric? All of these could be sold for much more than the ultra-low-margin generic home office printers, and yet manufacturers can't be bothered to innovate.
Easy.
(We used Konica-Minolta machine and Synology NAS - i.e. Samba 4).
The last printer I bought was a Xerox PostScript printer, and with a few minor caveats, it's been lovely not having to putz with drivers.
same thing with XPS support in printers.
most windows xps printer drivers just convert the xps into the printers native language. And maxing out one core for the exe that initiated the printing.
Also my vet once told me he replaces his home printer every time it runs out of ink, because replacing the cartridge costs the same order of magnitude as a new printer and this he can always have the latest and greatest.
Now cartridges needing to be replaced prematurely 'because we haven't figured out a technology to prevent them drying up' does sound suspicious.
My printers sit idle. First it was the price of ink. Then I just found I didn't like fiddling with them. Then I just got used to not using them.
I think the printing industry is in a huge hole, and it will take a lot of ass kissing, and honest innovation, that benefits the consumer, to bring home printing back.
Good luck-
It's a printer, what more innovation do you need?
The printer I bought was a Samsung and cost right around $100. Compare that to my old HP inkjet that cost more than that and required upwards of 5 ink cartridges.
I don't get color printing out of this but I can't recall the last time I needed to print in color. If I want to print photos, it's cheaper and easier to just order them.
I ended up buying an used, better model, which had more generic toners available.
I hope HP doesn't start doing that crap.
Yeah, a lot of people also said that about cellphones and then the iPhone came out. :)
- Mobile internet access was prohibitively expensive (sometimes as high as a penny per kilobyte), browsers were terrible, and some even pushed for an alternative language to HTML for the mobile web. [0]
- Every phone was running a mobile JVM, but apps still had compatibility issues across models and carriers.
- Camera quality was horrid.
- Many phones had poor or inconsistent support for MMS, group texts, and visual voicemail. Even the iPhone itself didn't support MMS at first.
And these were problems even with the devices that were marketed as "smartphones" back then. Mobile phones were awful.
Pages per dollar means something if you're printing in bulk. Otherwise, its trouble-free-printing-per-dollar. Which may be improved by buying a new printer periodically as a sort of prophylactic maintenance.
You can also still buy parts for these printers as well reasonably cheap. I was able to find a plastic gear that got stripped due to an object falling into the paper tray - cost me about $8 and 20 minutes of repair time and it's good as new.
The average person doesn't print much, but when they do they really need it right now (e.g. boarding passes, legal document to sign, concert tickets, whatever) and having a rock-solid printer that you know just works every time even if you haven't printed in 6 months is great.
Any printing functionality is entirely incidental, especially on inkjets.
If you need something printed urgently, you can guarantee that one of the following will happen: drivers need updating (=> 400MB download, if you can even find the file on the site), drivers don't work, out of ink, clogged nozzles that need cleaning (followed by out of ink), paper jam, file prints landscape instead of portrait, or vice versa, and there's no obvious way to fix this.
Its like mean-time-between-failure, excepts more like chance-of-succeeding: multiply all the probabilities of success at a stage together, you get the total chance of success. It becomes diminishingly small the more screw-ups are possible. Inkjet has two or three more places to fail, so.
When you rarely print, having a laser is better as they can sit a long time and not dry out or gum up like the ink printers.
A valid concern though, it's been shown those MFDs keep junk around in their buffers forever
You can buy cheap chips to put into the printer if you want to risk it - search for "drum reset refill chip".
The drum reset refill chip is not even a chip, it's a 56 ohm resistor that acts like a fuse. The drum has two resistors in parallel, one with very low resistance and one that's like 200 000 ohm. If the printer sees a high current when you turn on the printer, the firmware thinks it's a new drum and resets the page counter. After a short while the 100 ohm resistor burns (quite literally), and from that point on the firmware will only see a low current when you turn on the printer, and it will not reset the page counter.
So the drum reset refill chip lets you connect the two pads where the printer applies the current with a resistor like the one on a new drum. You can buy a 56 ohm resistor yourself to achieve the same effect.
It's literally a resistor and some plastic, only usable once, and they sell it to you for $10, which makes it much more of a scam than anything printer manufacturers do.
After a while, the printer started complaining on the beautiful big touch screen display, and said "Service cartridges" or print head or something along those lines (my mom might have put in non-"genuine" replacement cartridges, I seem to recall, but not sure). Fair enough - we had gotten her a cheap laser for printing anyway by that time, as it's really cheaper and far less trouble.
However, this stupid Lexmark thingy would not allow you to acknowledge that warning and then start up, so mom could at least still scan and fax - no, it would just sit there and complain about the print head or ink or what have you and refuse to do anything!
Needless to say, we tossed it. Still need to get a scanner and fax now :-/
Printing itself should be on the decline and increasingly outmoded. If anything, we need to focus on killing faxing and paper as a medium once and for all.
Sure, there may always (or at least long) be a need for hard-copy for some applications, but it hardly strikes me as sufficient to drive need for innovation in printers.
We still need printers.
But, yes, let's rush headlong into the world of driverless cars, while holding on to a relatively minor update to 15th century technology at all costs.
I wonder if HN know how much it parodies itself at times.
The downvotes on the last one were most likely because you complained about the first ones, against site guidelines.
Anyways, here, have a couple of upvotes, -I haven't found any way to exchange mine for cash :-]
In seriousness, I agree that they are completely worthless as far as it goes. In fact, I've ranted in the past that the concept of downvotes is outright juvenile. Along those lines, I'm more complaining that they too frequently take the place of discussion, submarine dissenting opinions, and encourage group-think.
Which is also why I don't pose my opinions in the form of a question. I'm one of those people who believes it's OK to plainly and respectfully express a dissenting belief, without apologizing for it.
In fact, do you know of any other path to a better world? (See what I did there?)
And I believe that downvotes are one avenue of doing so.
Most of the lack of innovation in printers (and scanners) comes from the problem that, once you've bought their hardware, there is no incentive to make the software that ships-by-default with it great. The innovation isn't the hardware, the innovation is waiting, stuck between the hardware and the operating system (e.g. why does my Brother mysteriously screw up my right margins on Windows?) and stuck between the application and the user. The operating-system printing dialogs are way too complicated for mere users and the printer-manufacturer's printing-dialogs are mostly rebranded operating-system printing dialogs. Users just want their bits to burn onto their paper, appropriately and reliably.
You know, it might not be such a bad idea to make a printer-bot ala a RepRap that allowed you to put any writing instrument you wanted into the cross-hairs and slowly draw out your documents like a plotter. The ink might be "cheaper" that way and it would be kind of fun to watch 8 of them on your wall draw your documents concurrently.
http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/846
Mine is on order
Depends on the industry. I would say probably 80% of the clients I work with still rely on faxing as a regular part of doing business. Is it the ideal way of sending documents? Probably not, but I've also never heard of anyone who had to call in technical support to clear off malware or reformat their fax machine. It just works.
It's amazing just how much society is being held back by the Windows operating system.
This is a neat idea -- for bonus points you could have it understand MetaFont, which is designed around an idealized pen.
You are pointing to technological problems that are best addressed by direct innovation on those problems vs via workarounds that rely on outmoded technology.
"overall printing and writing paper demand in the U.S. has declined by about 4% in 2014 and there will be a similar contraction in 2015"
I agree with you that printers are still terrible and a pain to work with from the user's perspective. However, I don't think it's true that there has been no innovation. It's just that it has been mostly on the side of reducing per-unit manufacturing costs. I recently took apart a modern HP inkjet and was surprised to find for instance that stepper motors have been replaced with DC motors and optical encoders.
However they have been absolutely terrible at the software side of things. This is a shame as it's as visible as the rest of the package to the consumer.
At least on the Mac/iOS side, most consumer printers support AirPrint and you don't need drivers to support basic operations. I have a perfectly functional (cheap) color laser printer that doesn't work pass Windows 7. But works fine with my iOS devices thanks to AirPrint. It also supports Google's Cloud Print so I guess that's one way I could make it work with Windows 10 if I were so inclined.
Put simply, it upends the retarded mess of printer drivers and replaces it with something that does the job perfectly well 99 percent of the time. All it requires is for the printer to have sufficient MIPS to raster PDF files.
I'm using it to network-share an older Samsung printer that has only USB port.
With PCL/Postscript/PDF support in hardware these days, what software side is there? Last time we bought a printer (an HP LaserJet), we just plugged it into our router and with zero additional configuration were able to print from our Macbooks and iPhones/iPads. It literally couldn't have been easier.
At one point while trying to figure out something else, I figured out that they had implemented the polling for the presence of the (usb) printer by having a Windows service rapidly and repeatedly start and stop a second service. So anytime the printer was unplugged, the logs would be nicely purged by this activity.
I don't remember if it was related to those services, but they also screwed up the permissions for a service, making it impossible to use the normal tools to make changes to the service.
The thinner drivers included in Windows 10 with her new computer seem to be better.
And on the "let's see how much further we can bloat a printer driver, since 1GB to get letters from your computer to paper is obviously not enough".
I hear MacOSX is about the same as Linux, and since Apple owns CUPS (the printing subsystem in Linux) that would make sense.
Edit: I'd also like to add that the whole "bloated software suite", not just for printers but for everything else, is mainly a Windows problem because Windows has a culture of downloading bloated software suites from the manufacturer, instead of having a "distro" with all the device drivers included by default along with lots of open-source software to use those devices. The idea of downloading some big pie of software (or getting it from an included optical disc) from a hardware maker, just to use your piece of hardware, simply does not exist on Linux. And that's the way it should be: the Windows way is what's given us gigabyte+ software suites for simple tasks like using a printer.
Not following at all why that has anything to do with Windows.
But how do you align the incentives for the hardware manufacturer ,to commodify itself(to a large extent, unless there's some sort of app ecosystem or some other network effect setup) ?
* It is chicken and egg. You don't get the better UX until you have quality open products to market, and manufacturing the devices may not be that expensive for a new line (at least compared to silicon) but you still need the resources of a billion dollar company. * Consumers buying devices like this will not research quality much before buying. To my knowledge, the vast majority of muggle printer buyers are just picking up something based off a feature list at Best Buy.
So you need to persuade a company to invest in innovation in a market without any, and then you need to persuade consumers to actually care about quality.
It is the exact same issue with less horribly insecure mobile devices without rootkit backdoor class modems, or more open motherboards, or open hard drive firmware, etc. We would see much higher quality with open development drivers for almost everything, but to see attitudes change you need to present financial incentives, and its really hard to promote something when no product at market exists yet.
My father does this with large-format inkjets[1]. He uses a water-based ink and fabric that comes on a roll with a peel-off backing, but the printer itself is not special other than being large format.
The main issue with DOG printing is that poor adjustment of the heads can result in some overspray (as they must sit some small distance from the fabric to avoid smearing). This can be avoided by competent operators, the big internet companies just don't always bother.
That said, the consumer line is a complete nightmare, especially the all-in-ones. HP and the rest need to stop what they're doing and just re-do all the drivers and helper software from scratch. Its also inexcusable that anyone is still selling ink-based printers. The industry really needs to move to a laser-only strategy. Everything about ink printers is terrible.
Currently, I have a $199 5+ year old brother b&w laser printer at home. Its a little tank. When I need to print photos I just send them to Walgreens. Win-win in my book.
> Why can't I print ink on a copper PCB, so that I can etch it later? Why can't I print soldermasks or silkscreens?
Well, to be fair, HP isn't in that industry. You're asking for 3D printing solutions from a paper printing company. When those things happen, they'll be from other companies. There's not a lot in common with circuit or 3D printing and traditional laser printing. Also considering HP is trying to re-do itself as a software company and always trying to find a buyer for its hardware lines, I suspect they have zero incentive to enter risky new markets. I'm guessing this acquisition is to make them more attractive to a hypothetical future buyer. This acquisition gives HP access to a robust copier line and mobile printing technology that works pretty well (samsungs copiers are android based so there are some mobile benefits and 'not reinventing the wheel' aspects here).
Just not my situation nor my purposes.
It's an utterly amazing, high-quality piece of hardware.
However, the software needed to use it is some of the absolutely worst software I've ever seen.
My advice: purchase a copy of VueScan to go with it. As a bonus, VueScan even has a Linux version that works quite well. (Not a shill, and I haven't purchased a copy, I just used the trialware but I was impressed.)
1) It works in Linux. Other, simpler scanners (non-ADF) can frequently work OK in Linux, but the Linux scanning software is a bit of a mess. I use gscan2pdf at home which works well enough, but looks pretty rough and hasn't seen any updates in years. But ADF scanners are different because of their nature; I'm not sure it'd be easy to get existing software to work with them, and I don't think the SANE interface works with them. With VueScan, you just install it, plug in the scanner, and it works, at least that was my experience. It has its own built-in drivers for ADF scanners like the ix500.
2) On Windows, it's just better. The Fujitsu software was a complete nightmare; it's horribly bloated (I seem to remember it being a 500MB download!) and very difficult to get working. I'm not sure it even works in Windows 10. VueScan is not a big download, and like on Linux is simple and easy. I haven't done much with it there because it puts big ugly watermarks all over your scans with the trialware version. But if I had an ix500 of my own, I'd be buying a copy of VueScan; I think it's only $20.
Luckily I don't have to do much scanning, so I get by OK with gscan2pdf on Linux and my now-older CanoScan LiDE 50 (I think that's the model number, or is it 25? I forget now). It's slow, and a bit of a pain as I have to haul it out and plug it in, but it works reliably and decently. But if I were doing any volume scanning on a regular basis, I'd break down and buy an ix500. They're very expensive ($500 new I think, and used ones on Ebay usually fetch over $300), but I've never seen anything like them: they don't take up much desk space (they unfold out when you need to use them), they have excellent scan quality, and they're ridiculously fast, while also doing duplex scanning just as fast (using sensors on both sides). They also don't seem to have any trouble with misfeeding pages.
We had that working on the assembly line in 1998 at HP. Never really got off the ground.
Tatoos? Even temporary ones?
Not to mention the medical devices HP could have had.
Also there is a huge barrier to entry in the form of patent roadblocks for anyone trying to enter. This deal included 6500 patents!
It was maybe 7 years ago, and I guess now they have a single µC containing the DSP and able to speak USB, do the dithering, and control the motors all in one package. There is almost no R&D in those markets. That's how you get a $20 printer (and $50 ink cartridges).
Do no count on printing on PCBs or fabric, that'll be R&D, and that's expensive, no one cares up there.
I run a company that actually is innovating in printing, and I'd like to ask you a few questions if you could spare a few minutes... Thanks in advance.
Right now people are still printing a ton and more every year, but laptops and tablet are becoming very affordable in most situations where paper was needed in companies, and paperless is something that starts to become the norm.
I hear the printer in our office like once a week, my printer at home actually prints twice a year. We used to have whole areas in big supermarkets with printer boxes, now it's like three models in a corner.
What saddens me is that scanners haven't evolve much as well, at this time where they are more needed that anytime before. I deeply regret not having bought a snapscan, but then the software that drives them seems so limited (last time I checked it was coupled with evernote, and nothing like dropbox or gdrive integration) it doesn't feel that much better than other scanners coupled with a always on home server solution.
I've had it for about 8 years now and it's still going strong. I don't print much (which is why the inkjets kept clogging up stopped working), but about 2000 pages later, it's only on its second toner cartridge and will probably not run out for years.
I'm kind of hoping that it breaks so I can replace it with a color laser, but it's been extremely reliable.
We bought a "Brother Hl-l2360dw" and have been so happily surprised. Finally a printer that actually works and doesn't make me want to kill myself (and others) every time I interface with it.
Don't get an all-in-one, don't get an inkjet and don't get color. Following those rules will allow you to actually print things stress free.
Last time I bought a printer I went straight to hp ones and ignored all the others (Canon printers above all), and recommend HP printers to all who ask me.
Hplip is awesome and often don't get all the praises it deserves.
I've not printed one color page, yet I recently had to install a new yellow ink cartridge in order to print in black/white.
I should mention that if you do mostly black and white printing it may be more economical to get a laser printer, even just a grayscale one.
Just slapping a black and white document into the queue do not trigger this automatically.
Source? Also, how do B&W printers solve this problem then?
I'm not sure how B&W inkjet printers solve it, but it's probably by spending more ink to avoid the wash-out. As other people pointed out, some color printers allow for printing with just the black cartridge in. I don't have one of these to compare, so it's possible the text doesn't look as crisp on these because of the lack of "anti-aliasing".
I suppose part of the reason for this limitation to apply to some printers but not others has to do with the business model (ink is expensive and for some brands/model lines it's the main source of revenue), and perhaps the technology used - some printers have disposable headers on the cartridges themselves, and others (like the printers I own) have non-disposable headers, which basically means the printer is ruined if ink dries up in the headers. This may be why some printers require the cartridges, even if empty, to be in, so the headers are not as exposed to the air.
Unfortunately manufacturers don't like to give extensive explanations (see my business model point above...), but on user forum threads like [0] and [1] there are some suggestions for why things are the way they are.
[0] http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/224699-28-print-black-co... [1] http://superuser.com/questions/409473/how-to-print-in-black-...
From what I've read, even when you are printing just in black, the printer uses a small amount of color ink to stop the cartridge heads from clogging. Still, I would appreciate not having to run out and buy a blue cartridge just to print 3 pages of a text document.
Why is this an issue at all? Aren't the protocols for talking to a printer standardized or is that ugliness hidden within the drivers themselves?
Business idea! A device that plugs into your printer (or network) and exposes it as a "more compatible" printer on the same network! Yes it's silly that you'd need a separate device to do this, but it would allow for having a clean implementation of IPP exposed (so no more hacks or backwards compatibility issues). Maybe a custom OS build atop a Rasberry Pi for a proof of concept.
I would definitely buy one. Spending $50 on something like that to save hours upon hours of wasted time setting up Linux printers.
I keep an old Mac mini around largely for this and NAS playback.
If I run out of paper, there is no way to resume nor cancel, and if there is a way I am sure it doesn't work.
I hope they improve all the drivers and firmware.
It was awful, and it didn't let me use generic toner. I had to flash it's firmware. Way too much hassle for a printer.
http://h30261.www3.hp.com/~/media/Files/H/HP-IR/documents/re...
I'm not surprised. At all. With the prices ink has...
What we need are printers which are more "open". Cheaper to run, easier to service. Just like the ones Brother makes. Their toners are refillable and the drum is a separate unit. And they have Linux drivers out of the box.
Is this a standard M&A term? Why not acquire Samsung's business for $100-300M less?
Now they are a scam. They do a better version of the hustle Gillette does with its razors.
Somewhere in the 90s they realized higher profits were available if they hoodwinked people by coercing them to become a victim to a proprietary ink-cartridge dependency racket. With that, their integrity and quality were summarily abandoned. What a crooked morally bankrupt company.
Bottom line... no more than $150.
I wish I had a color laser but it's at least $300 more for an equivalent unit and I just don't care that much anymore. Most of what we'd print are photos and it's cheaper to just go to the supermarket and have them run on a Kodak machine. A couple cents per print = oh well. An inkjet system would probably end up costing us more anyway once you factor in wastage like ink lost to head cleaning.
Inkjets are really only economical for people who are using them for color photo prints on a daily basis, and those people are moving to bulk-ink/inktank systems and getting bigtime savings. For everyone else, B+W laser is by far the best solution for "occasional printing" and has really nice bleed/smear resistance, and the Brothers are best-in-class.
It only has three problems: 1) no WiFi (which is understandable given its age), which we solve with a bridge. 2) if you leave it on, it occasionally runs a self test/clean cycle, which set off our old house's smoke detector. Fixed this by turning it on when we need it. 3) no duplex option.
Other then these issues, it's a great machine and is literally the oldest piece of tech we own.
Those are $50 each, so I'd take what you are talking about (I get aftermarket 4 sets of ink cartridges for my printers for about $6, so the ink price would probably just be similar) for about $500.
I'm not quite sure how much I'd pay for a new printer like you describe. Every once in a while I look around for a new printer which can handle larger paper sizes (12x18 and A3), but I haven't found one which looks like it will do what I want (low volume laser printer for larger paper sizes with linux, mac, windows support) and still doesn't cost a ton. I think it's a niche market unfortunately.
I dread the day I'll have to replace it, but until it keeps printing like a champ.
It is not uncommon for Asian (?) conglomerates to have a very wide range of products, as Hitachi, Sony, Yamaha (from trumpets and pianos, motorbikes, engines to electronics) and Toshiba demonstrate. TIL that Samsung even builds drillships.
It starts quickly, prints well and is really really small. It isn't AirPrint enabled, but they do offer their own app for iPad / Android, and it works alright for me from my Mac OS machine, so I am happy.
Companies are weird in the things they own. Fun fact, Energizer (yes, the battery company. That Energizer) does a lot of business in feminine products, shaving products, and sun care stuff.
My mom just bought a Windows 10 laptop from HP for under $200 including tax; that's an amazing price point... sure there will be bloatware and it's a cheaply made laptop... but for under $200 that's pretty impressive.
And echoing jhbadger, I still make occasional use of my 2nd HP calculator, a 28S. Nothing beats RPN.
By "Disrupting" do they mean monopolizing?
I can't help but feel that traditional paper printers are a dying breed in general. Yeah, it'll be a long, slow death, but paper definitely seems passé in general.
Now if we're talking 3d printers and specialty printers like others have mentioned, that seems like an area where there could be some room for growth. Heck, if anything, I can't help but wonder if a company like HP shouldn't generalize the idea of "printer" even more and introduce a line of desktop CNC milling machines and the like.
The bulk of people are going to buy a $79 printer instead of a $89 because they are unable to see the differences (not their fault).
Therefore each and every manufacturer will find ways to lower the price and end up making the shittiest piece of knocked together crap that still looks shiny.
I wonder, has paper sales volume tanked? Is specialty printing all that's left? Why don't printers do a better job there already?
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3021290/why-printer-ink-should-...
The business model is also odd, a entry level wireless scanner/printer is only worth 2 packs of cartridges.
methinks..
Where is my stack of A4 e-ink pages?
Innovation is never obtained from big companies buying other big companies. On the contrary.