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Comment by zeroer | Hacker News Reader

> What exactly was my responsibility as a daughter? Is anyone so terrible that they deserve to die alone? And what would it say about me if I were willing to let that happen?

Maybe I just don't get it. The answers to these questions are obvious and straight-forward. I wouldn't think twice about my responsibility to a person who molested me, beat my mom, and then "fucked off", let alone spend 4,000 words bloviating about it.

To your kids you have a (time-limited) responsibility because you brought them into this world without their consent. Everybody else in your family who's toxic should be cut off and never thought of again. Jesus Christ, life is too short to bother.

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I think one of the beautiful things about this story is that it actually describes two contrasting points of view on the matter, and one of them is in agreement with you.

The author spends far fewer words on her sister's perspective (who seems to share the same opinion you do), but I think talking about it less is kind of the whole point -- as you say, the answers are obvious and straight-forward, so there isn't much to go in to. The author herself tries to hold this perspective, but ultimately finds she has a different one. One that includes, among other things, the need to write this story even after "it is finished".

I think the author recognizes that she had no duty to her father after the abuse she suffered and that nobody she cared about would think twice about her never seeing him or his family again. Reading between the lines I heard the voice of a young girl who will nonetheless always miss the father figure she wanted (so desperately that she was ready to forgive and forget sexual abuse if he would either apologize or lie to her about it) but never had (because he never existed) and these emotions become triggered by any mention of his name. I've had close friends in this situation and the psychology of it can become very frustrating and confusing. In any case the article wasn't about him, it was about herself - probably written, she would say, for others in her situation with less self-awareness or self-confidence - children who should recognize a duty not to an abusive parent but to themselves to achieve some measure of peace and closure in their own lives.

Its not always that straight-forward.

I will start from the beginning to explain why. Keep in mind, I will talk from the point of view of Asian cultures.

When you are a child, your world is limited to your parents. You listen to them because that's what you are told to do by everyone else. You love them because that's what you are told to do. My mother kept on telling me to go under a bus because I am dumb, or I was not good looking. She told me to always tell myself that I am stupid and dumb and I will never achieve anything in life. But yea, she loved me too, in her own way; atleast that's what I like to think. So its not been exactly an easy childhood for me.

In no way, I have undergone what the author has experienced. But had that happened to me, what would I have done ?

The answer is complicated. What about compassion ? What about forgiveness ? And keep in mind, I am an atheist. But what do I gain by letting someone die ? Nothing.

I take a step back and try to understand from their point of view. Why did they do what they did ? There is always a reason. Maybe the author's father experienced abuse or had a rough childhood too. Maybe he wasn't loved enough. Maybe love and understanding is all he needed. Or I maybe wrong on every count. Who knows ?

So I will try to forgive and be compassionate towards everyone. Maybe because I don't have the balls to stand up and defend myself. Or maybe those feelings do not come to me at all. All I know is this is what I can do and will keep on doing. And hope that one day, everyone is kind to each other.

It is phrased in terms of duty and responsibility, which are easy to reject. But the ongoing struggle for some kind of relationship really stems from her own desire for understanding.

The problem is that the law tends to disagree on that one.

What exactly are you talking about? Supporting your underage children is a moral responsibility in my book. If you're talking about filial responsibility laws, then yea, you have a point; it's somewhere that I disagree with the law. But fortunately, due to federal medicare support, these laws are rarely enforced. For face-to-face meetings and everything else, shitty family members should be shunned. I wish more people would tell their abusers to take a hike.

I'm not entirely sure on the laws in the US but in Germany the law basically considers parents to be responsible for their children and as the parents and children get older, eventually the children become responsible for the parents. I'd imagine it's similar in other countries.

A lot of the time there isn't much or any consideration given in case of abusive relationships. Even though I think we both agree on the fact that in such a situation any ties both morally and legally should be severed.

About half of US states have laws like this. Sometimes it's a specific financial responsibility for medical bills or burial costs, sometimes it's a more general law like this one: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/cha...

This Massachusetts law does excuse children who were not "reasonably supported" by their parents when they were a minor.

Are these laws actually enforced? In addition to the one you point out, there's a host of loopholes I see in the bare bones law, "when such parent through misfortune and without fault of his own is destitute".

Yes : http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/A36025_1...

Hmmm, well, I suppose it's a pity my mother's abuses left me poor and not very able to help pay her future out-of-state medical bills....

As I understand it, in the US in general (this area of law is more done at the state than Federal level), unless you take upon yourself the responsibility of taking care of one of your parents, in which case metrics of care come into play, you have absolutely no legal responsibilities to them (separated and/or divorced spouses are a whole nother and much more nasty can of worms).

And those metrics of care most certainly do not include monetary contributions, just seeing that they get medical care, live in habitable lodgings, eat, etc.

Or so is my understanding of Virginia state law, I have a friend who's taken up such a responsibility towards her mother along with another sibling, but her mother generally refuses to keep her appointments with doctors.... My friend is worried about the liability that might arise from this.

burkaman believes otherwise ... but it'll be a cold day in hell before I accept anything WRT my mother like that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470409), on the other hand, it wouldn't even need to be enforced by the law if it was my father....

Virginia law is similar to the Massachusetts law in my other comment: http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2011/title20/chapter5/2...

You don't have any choice if you are able to support your parents and they are "in necessitous circumstances". However, Virginia is very clear about excusing victims of abuse:

> This section shall not apply if there is substantial evidence of desertion, neglect, abuse or willful failure to support any such child by the father or mother, as the case may be, prior to the child's emancipation or, except as provided hereafter in this section, if a parent is otherwise eligible for and is receiving public assistance or services under a federal or state program.

Hmmm, and what happens if the child is living in another state? (Although in this case it's just on the other side of the Beltway in Maryland.)

My, that law is quite detailed, incorporates quite a bit more into it, and doesn't have the "through misfortune and without fault of his own" loophole.

Yuck. Is it, are any of these seriously and rigorously enforced? Or are they perhaps used for internecine fighting between siblings and/or parents?

ADDED: my home state of Missouri has not such law per ptaipale's citation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470488), so that might be why I'm ignorant of the laws of the states that do so. Hmmm, what if you live in one of those no responsibility states and your parent in a responsibility state?

Actually, this varies a lot depending on country, and in the US depending on state.

In European Union, different member states have different practices. Germany and South European countries have laws and strong social norms that adult children must take care (or at least pay) for caring their old parents. Northern Europe does not (Nordic countries, Netherlands, Belgium, I understand Britain as well).

According to [0], 28 U.S. states make adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can't afford to take care of themselves.

In Russia, law also requires adult children to care for their parents (this I know for a fact due to an immigration case where I helped).

In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law.

[0] http://www.elderlawanswers.com/requiring-adult-children-to-p...

>In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-parents-children-v...

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